More ice

[Flyin Tony]

Can someone tell me why my plane doesnt like the clouds . There is never any clouds or if there are any they are full of ice. Today I went to PTV(i think thats it) because its always cloudy in that valley. I climb toward pmd to 10,000 and the temp is -10, get over EHF still -10 at 10,000. I then get cleared down to 5,000. Right went I get in the clouds it starts to build. I get down to 6,000 and the plane is a Ice cube. The biggest thing is I didnt turn on the pitot heat, all the way from 8,000 to 4,500 no airspeed and VSI is all jacked up same as the ALT. It was no fun. The whole plane is a block of ice and i was getting scuuuurd . The whole window was iced over. The last 2 places were the ice broke off was over the stall and both landing lights. It looked like a lot of crushed ice on the wing and went back about 3-5in. I was getting ready to take off and got a IFR to the north to see if the clouds were lower and nothing. There was a 182 comming into the airport and he said the tops were 6-7k and he wasnt getting any ice. I took off got a VFR on top and made it home. Everytime I go IFR I learn more and more!!!

 

[minitour]

ice is bad, m'kay

-mini

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Unless you can get below the clouds or freezing temperatures the ice is usually going to get worse the lower you get. This is where its a good idea to know the airmets of where icing conditions exist and at what altitudes. Pilot reports also provide a lot of useful information when it comes to icing. If you get all of this information in advance it can help you make the decision whether to climb or descend to get out of the condition.

 

[FN FAL]

It was a good day for me...some ice, but nothing to write home about. Airmets and Sigmets ringed the region, but we were left unscathed.

 

[avbug]

Flyingtony,

Either your post is flame bait, or the unabashed confession of an idiot. Which is it?

 

[LearLove]

Its either flame bait or this guy is really luckey.

 

[Vik]

I don't think its flame bait. I think Tony takes his Dad's plane out into IFR conditions to get IFR experience and just doesn't do a good job of reading his DUAT or doesn't even bother to print one out thinking .. hey, Its SoCal .. we don't get ice here.

Seriously Tony .. Your PA-24's tail is going to stall one day and you won't be here to post about it. My PA-30 is based on your PA-24, and I promise you if what you wrote is true, you were probably a few minutes more of icing away from your tail stalling.

Getting actual IMC experience is good for the airlines, but if you die, it won't matter how much actual you have.

 

[PropsForward]

Forgetting the pitot heat was this oversight from never using it, or not getting a weather breifing? Is the airplane approved for known ice?

In any event, count yourself very lucky and please don't try that again. We don't want to read about 8389P in the NTSB database.

Fly safe!

 

[FN FAL]

Speaking of turning things on, how do you turn on "Mr. Coffee?"

 

[DitchDriver]

Unless you can get below the clouds or freezing temperatures the ice is usually going to get worse the lower you get.

I have always read and seen it myself that it's the cloud tops where you get most ice.

Or do you mean "lower" as in anything below flight levels? Besides, I am seeing plenty of days when I'm still icing well below the clouds.

 

[UnstableAviator]

Speaking of turning things on, how do you turn on "Mr. Coffee?"

Allow him access to the box of Mrs. Tea!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I have always read and seen it myself that it's the cloud tops where you get most ice.

Or do you mean "lower" as in anything below flight levels? Besides, I am seeing plenty of days when I'm still icing well below the clouds.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. It depends on the conditions. Sometimes the common thought is "if I'm in ice, I should descend to higher temperatures to get out of it", so the real point of my post was to let the guy know that descending may not necessarily be the best alternative. Generally, for stratiform type cloud icing, the accumulations are greatest at temperatures between 0 and -10 celcius. Therefore, if you are in icing conditions associated with stratiform type clouds, and the temp outside is -8 celcius, you may be able to climb a bit higher and reduce the accumulation. In cumuliform clouds clear ice is more likely to be encountered, and can be greatest from 0 to -15 celcius. So, if its cumuliform clouds and clear ice, depending on the cloud tops you may not be able to climb high enough to reduce the ice accumulation. Obviously if you climb you also have to keep the speed higher than usual as stall speed will increase. Again, its all about preflight planning and knowing where the clouds are, what the temps are at altitude, and what types of ice are being encountered. The information above was referenced from Advisory Circular 00-6A Chapter 10. Here's a link: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/c2df8d9d7471617786256a020078083a/$FILE/Chap%2010-12.pdf

 

[FN FAL]

Allow him access to the box of Mrs. Tea!

Heheheh! ...what if Mrs. Tea is frigid...as in ICED Tea?

 

[Flyin Tony]

No Airmets or Pireps about the ice and there was 182 and a PA28 getting VFRontop out of BFL the whole time I was going down. Im sure you guys have seen some nasty stuff, the ice that I saw was about 3/4in if that. to me thats bad and I didnt want to be in it. I even ask the ATC and 2 of the planes that were comming out of BFL if they were getting ice and they said no.

 

[Flyin Tony]

I took a pic it wasnt more then a 1/4in

 

[Fury220]

Why don't you just put "Future Statistic" under your screen name, Flyin Tony? Stupid sh!t like that is all it's going to lead to.

And woe to any of us who might have you as a future UAL captain someday

 

[avbug]

So which is it? Three quarters of an inch, or a quarter of an inch? Does it really matter? In an aircraft not approved for flight into known icing, at a time when you describe losing your airspeed indicator because you "forgot" to turn on the only anti ice device you had, you shrug your shoulders and tell us its "only" three quarters of an inch. that's a lot of ice. A whole lot more than an aircraft not certificated for flight into known ice should be carrying.

You relied upon PIREPs to determine if there was ice? What kind of a fool thing is that? Well the other guy jumped and lived, so I thought I oughtta go ahead and jump off too. After all, he didn't look like was hurt too bad(ly)...

Give me a break. You did something stupid, you're not apologetic, and you want to tell the world about it. Doing something stupid, fine. Learn about it. Don't defend it, don't brag about it, don't try to justify it. You did something stupid. Period. Shun it and never do it again, else you only paint yourself as truly stupid. Do you want that?

The Administrator has repeatedly held that PIREPs of no ice do not negate the fact that icing exists. In other words, because someone else didn't get it, doesn't mean you won't. Further, if conditions are known to be conductive to ice...such as clouds in the winter, then you have known ice. Period. That no body else reported icing is not relevant. You're taking an aircraft not approved for flight into icing, into icing. That's both illegal, and stupid. Idiotic. Foolish. Unwise. Pick your adjective. Pick carefully, it's a self-description.

Like I said, either flame bait, or a complete idiot. Now which is it?

 

[English]

Guys, FlyinTony is all of 18 years old. I think he just graduated from high school last year.

While I agree with all the cautions about ice, he is likely of the age where he's not gonna listen.

 

[Vik]

if you could see 3/4" then your tail was probably close to stalling ..

 

[avbug]

Ah.

I guess there's some lattitude there. Then again, I was eighteen and crop dusting, and I'd be dead if I didn't listen. Perhaps he just needs to grow up, and listen anyway...

 

[qmaster3]

I agree a good a$$ chewing from avbug is in order.


I'm learning from it, and didn't do anything wrong.

 

[flyguy75000]

Hey big Tone........does your "pops" know your out fockin around in his airplane in $hitty wx? Your settin yourself up for a whoopin from your old man, boy.

 

[SuperFLUF]

Tony,
If you want to fly for a living, FIRST you need to live long enough. SECOND you need to get the experience without getting ANY violations.
Your current path doesn't look good for meeting either of those requrements.

You might want to log on to Sporty's site and pick up some instrument flying and seasonal weather instructional videos 'cuz your current knowledge level ain't cuttin' it.

 

[qmaster3]

Your settin yourself up for a whoopin from your old man, boy.

How many times did I here that growing up




"Oh, ok old man you aint sh!t".



*qmaster's old man commences a$$ woopin*





Be careful flying tony.

 

[pilotlbs]

I don't think calling him an idiot will solve anything, maybe just give him some professional advice. "Constructive criticism"?

 

[Flyin Tony]

O boy, and I thought this thread was dead.

Wheres VIK been I haven't seen him posting anything???

 

[BD King]

Flyingtony,

Either your post is flame bait, or the unabashed confession of an idiot. Which is it?

Amen, Bro.

 

[Lead Sled]

I'm 18 and will be instrument rated in a couple weeks. I don't plan on flying any light airplane into known icing.

Flyin Tony screwed up. Hopefully he'll learn from it. There are others on this forum that are either newly rated or in training - let's hope that they can learn something here as well.

For what it's worth, I made Weather Flying by Robert Buck and Instrument Flying by Richard Taylor mandatory reading for all of my instrument students after they have passed their checkride. They aren't the typical ground school textbooks; in fact, they contain little, if any, weather or instrument flying theory. Buck's book discusses how to fly weather in the real world and Taylor's book discusses how to fly the various instrument procedures in the real world. They are easy and enjoyable reads.

As demonstrated by some of Flyin Tony's posts, most people, after getting their instrument rating, still have little or no idea how to safely use it. Those first few hours of "real world" actual can be pretty intimidating. Reading those two books will go a very long way towards converting all of that theoretical knowledge that you learned in ground school and flight training to practical use. I've always felt that it would take several hundred hours of actual IFR experience to gain the practical knowledge and insight that these authors have put in these books. I recommend them highly.

A wise man once said: "Learn from the mistakes of others, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.

'Sled

 

[340drvr]

Just ignore all the verbal gymnastics concerning known ice definitions, it's simple: Temperature below 0C, and clouds, equals known ice, stay out of IMC completely if your plane is not equipped.

 

[FN FAL]

I don't think calling him an idiot will solve anything, maybe just give him some professional advice. "Constructive criticism"?

I always thought "Constructive Criticism" involved a bar of soap in a sock? But I could be wrong.