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Big Beer Belly

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United maps novel legal strategy in labor fight

By Mark Skertic
Tribune staff reporter
Published May 6, 2005

United Airlines could be flying into uncharted legal territory next week when it asks a bankruptcy judge to throw out the contracts of more than 41,000 flight attendants, mechanics and machinists.

The airline will use federal bankruptcy laws when asking the court to void the contracts of three unions. If successful, the carrier has vowed to invoke another law, the Railway Labor Act, to force workers to stay on the job.

In short, United hopes to use the power of the courts to compel workers to accept new pay and benefit terms the company would dictate.

It's an unprecedented argument the airline is making, said Douglas Baird, a bankruptcy expert at the University of Chicago Law School.

"There's a deep-seated principle that's working here independent of the airlines," he said. "This is a country where we don't force people to work under terms and conditions they never agreed to."

But Robert Siegel, a Los Angeles attorney who has represented US Airways in its efforts to terminate its contract with machinists, said United's position might be unique, but it has a sound legal basis.

The Railway Labor Act, which despite its name also governs airline employees, prevents workers from striking until mediation and other efforts have been exhausted.

"When you don't have a contract, it doesn't mean you're free to strike," Siegel said.

United has called the need to further reduce labor costs essential to bringing the airline out of bankruptcy. But it also fears a strike by any of its labor groups would cripple the airline, drive away customers and erode the confidence of financiers needed to provide the money to exit Chapter 11 protection. United entered bankruptcy proceedings in December 2002.

Pension deal

On Tuesday, the carrier will ask the bankruptcy court in Chicago to approve a deal made with the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. That agency has agreed to take over the carrier's pension plans, a move that would save United about $645 million annually. It ultimately also would reduce the retirement benefits for many employees by thousands of dollars.

If the court accepts that agreement, it would set the stage for a trial to start the next day. United would be back before Judge Eugene R. Wedoff asking him to void the contracts of the Association of Flight Attendants, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association.

If successful, United would be free to temporarily impose new wage scales and decide what benefits to offer while beginning negotiations with the unions on new contracts.

The airline has come to terms with its other labor groups.

The U.S. Bankruptcy Code allows a court to dissolve labor contracts if the terms would prevent a company from returning to profitability. But the affected unions have said they would walk off the job if their contracts are terminated. Particularly galling to many is the prospect of losing their pensions.

"Taking away our pensions is not going to solve United's problems," said Mark Farnsworth, 39, a flight attendant for the past decade. "A business plan and a commitment from management would solve the problem."

He was among eight flight attendants who barged unannounced into the Northwestern University classroom of Dipak Jain this week to deliver petitions asking that the pensions be preserved. Jain, a business professor, is a United board member.

`Very bizarre reading'

A legal strategy that combines bankruptcy law and the Railway Labor Act in such a manner would be unprecedented, legal scholars say. They also question whether it would fly with the courts.

"That seems to me a very bizarre reading of the two statutes together," said Henry Perritt, a labor law expert with the Chicago-Kent College of Law.

"I think the best reading is that if the employer changes the terms of work, as of the moment that the change takes place, the union has a right to strike."

United might be right that it has to "do something Draconian to get their labor costs down," Perritt said. "On the other hand, folks are entitled to say whether they want to work under more adverse conditions."

But Siegel, who has represented United in the past and whose clients have included some of the nation's largest airlines, said it would be inconsistent to have a trial that culminates in a judge terminating contracts but then allows employees to walk out.

"Why have the provision that you can reject the contract under a standard that measures what's necessary for successful reorganization," he said, "if the immediate legal consequence of the judge's ruling is you can shut down the company and ruin the estate?"

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[email protected]
 
Mechanics ramp up strike threat against United

Mechanics ramp up strike threat against United Air

CHICAGO (Reuters) — The union representing mechanics at bankrupt United Airlines Thursday said mechanics at seven other U.S. airlines have vowed to support their colleagues at United, "up to and including the right to strike."
The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association said this week that United's mechanics were planning a strike in defense of their pension plans, which the carrier hopes to shift to government pension insurers. United, the No. 2 U.S. carrier, is a unit of UAL.

Thursday's AMFA announcement beefs up that threat, saying mechanics at Alaska Airlines, ATA Airlines, Horizon Airlines, Independence Airlines, Mesaba Airlines, Northwest Airlines and Southwest Airlines would strike in sympathy with United's mechanics if a bankruptcy judge approves the pension shift.

"I am authorized to call for an immediate nationwide strike against United if modifications are made to our contract without the approval of the membership and have called strikes three times before on behalf of AMFA's members," AMFA National Director O.V. Delle-Femine said in a statement.

The airline, which has been in bankruptcy since December 2002, has said a strike under the circumstances would violate the Railway Labor Act and bankruptcy law.

"We have had to make difficult choices, but those actions have brought us to the point where the goal line for an exit from Chapter 11 is close," said UAL spokeswoman Jean Medina.

"We take negotiations seriously, and believe energies are better focused on reaching consensual agreements."

The AMFA's recent strike threat comes in response to news that United and the Pension Benefits Guaranty last month reached a settlement, clearing the way for the carrier to shed its four employee retirement plans.

The pension agency has said the difference between promised benefits and assets in the four United plans is $9.8 billion. The government will guarantee retirement benefits totaling $6.6 billion. A bankruptcy judge was expected to rule on the settlement on May 10.

United, battered along with the rest of the industry by soaring fuel costs and weak revenues, has said it needs to cut labor costs to emerge from Chapter 11 protection.

Voiding and replacing its pension plans would give United an average savings of $645 million a year for five years. United has said it remains open to suggestions that would keep the pension intact and still grant the airline the savings it needs.

Some union leaders have said they have offered workable alternatives that the airline has rejected.

United also faces a threat of intermittent strikes by its flight attendants if the carrier dumps the pensions on the PBGC.
 
I have a question, and I apologize in advance if this is supposed to be a common-knowledge thing.

Assume a company (generically speaking) emerges from bankruptcy protection, and during the duration of chapter 11 it has voided union contracts. Do the labor unions have a legal right to renegotiate and/or reinstitute their contracts with the company once the company has emerged from chapter 11?

Thanks in advance.
 
Can people be forced to do the status quo? Yes. During our Contract 2000 talks a bunch of our guys decided they didn't want to work overtime (extra work--greenslips). Delta took them to court and the pilots lost. They were "forced" to accept overtime flying. "You will work more, and LIKE IT!"

Is this the same thing United is going through? Probably not, and I don't know how it will pan out. Very interesting, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Can people be forced to do the status quo? Yes. During our Contract 2000 talks a bunch of our guys decided they didn't want to work overtime (extra work--greenslips). Delta took them to court and the pilots lost. They were "forced" to accept overtime flying. "You will work more, and LIKE IT!"

Is this the same thing United is going through? Probably not, and I don't know how it will pan out. Very interesting, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

UAL is skating on thin ice on this one. I'm sure if all this comes to pass that the UAL fleet will have more than it's share of maintenance problems that will ground most of the fleet. "Oh.......gee.....look at that......it will take several days to get that part....assuming the part that comes in is also good." Or...."the book says it will take 5 hours to do that job.....assuming everything goes as planned and no other problems come to our attention during installation."
 
This will be interesting.

I don't know what will happen with this but it will be interesting to watch. The airlines want to have it both ways; they want to use the bankruptcy laws to get around the provisions of the Railway Labor Act that prevent unilateral changes to work rules and wages until the negotiating process has run it's course, and on the other hand, they want to invoke the part of the RLA that prevents unions from from striking until the process under the act is exhausted and an offer of arbitration is rejected. Essentially they want to keep the parts of the RLA that they like and throw out the parts that they don't.....very convenient.

When push comes to shove I don't know whether or not the unions will actually engage in a strike that would be suicidal. I'm pretty sure that UAL management is going to throw out the pensions and probably the contracts and see what happens. It also seems to me that if the unions get mad enough and do decide to strike they are going to do it whether it is ruled illegal or not. Short of being out of work, the employees at UAL have pretty well had their careers destroyed and the loss of pensions and the introduction of imposed wages and workrules will be the final insult. There might be a lot of employees who figure they have little to lose and many that really don't care if the company goes under. There might even be some that are so mad that they want to see the company fail. If a strike happens the question of whether or not the strike was legal will probably drag on in the courts for years......long after UAL is dead because of the strike.

This is just another bizarre turn of events in an out-of-control industry that is getting more surreal every day.
 
WhiteCloud said:
UAL is skating on thin ice on this one. I'm sure if all this comes to pass that the UAL fleet will have more than it's share of maintenance problems that will ground most of the fleet. "Oh.......gee.....look at that......it will take several days to get that part....assuming the part that comes in is also good." Or...."the book says it will take 5 hours to do that job.....assuming everything goes as planned and no other problems come to our attention during installation."

Well said White Cloud:
During these times, emotions run high, I just hope and pray these things don't lead to serious problems where someone gets hurt!
737
 
General Lee said:
Is this the same thing United is going through? Probably not, and I don't know how it will pan out. Very interesting, though.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Very interesting is right, but not at all analogus to the overtime situation at DAL in 2001. This is new ground. I would not be surprised to see a work action, shortly followed by a court ordered injunction to sort out all the legal matters involved. My hunch is that since the employees are no longer governed by a CBA negotiationed in accordance with the RLA and they are not in section six negotiations in accordance with the RLA, UAL will be on very thin ice if it is counting on the RLA to prevent a work action.
 
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WOW what does kit darby have to say about this!!! According to him the indusrty is turning around. This UAL thing shows how the pilots are not the only getting screwed its everyone!!!! How can they ask to throught out the contract in Chptr 11 and still want expect the employees to work under the pay and benefits they find deserving without allowing them to strike. I think you might have people call it a career and quit, having 20,00 employees Mechanics, FA quit overnight will shout UAL down
 
There already is precedent set for a union striking after a court imposed 1113 filing. Wheeling Steel back in the late 80's.

I found the link on Google:

http://www.cbdm.com/documents/Bankruptcy%20-%20Paper.pdf

It will be interesting to see what happens. The union has already painted themselves into a corner with the threats...should they not follow through they will have zero credibility left with the rank and file.
 
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ThisistheDream said:
WOW what does kit darby have to say about this!!!
Kit says....."There will be an increase in demand due to pilots, mechanics and flight attendants retiring, moving on to other jobs and leaving the industry. Now...for only $125. you can make yourself more competetive in this exciting environment."
 
Boeingman said:
There already is precedent set for a union striking after a court imposed 1113 filing. Wheeling Steel back in the late 80's.

Was Wheeling Steel governed by the Railway Labor Act? It's the RLA that UAL management will attempt to use to block a strike. I think this is unprecedented for an employer to use the BK process to terminate a contract governed by the RLA and then at the same time seek protection of the RLA to prevent its employees the right to self help.
 
FDJ2 said:
Was Wheeling Steel governed by the Railway Labor Act? It's the RLA that UAL management will attempt to use to block a strike. I think this is unprecedented for an employer to use the BK process to terminate a contract governed by the RLA and then at the same time seek protection of the RLA to prevent its employees the right to self help.

Well, Lorenzo tried it in 83 (in a round about way I guess), but he ultimatly failed. While you're correct about the RLA this would be akin to UAL management wanting the best of both legal worlds and protections applying to them.

I am not an attorney nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but if you are abrogating a contract negotiated under the RLA using the 1113 process, I would think RLA goes out the door.

Think about it...the RLA does not allow a strike unless negotiations have been exhausted. For UAL to ask the judge to abbrogate under an 1113 motion, the argument could be made that negotiations are in fact at an impasse.
 
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Boeingman said:
I am not an attorney nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but if you are abrogating a contract negotiated under the RLA using the 1113 process, I would think RLA goes out the door.

Think about it...the RLA does not allow a strike unless negotiations have eben exhausted. For UAL to ask the judge to abbrogate under an 1113 motion, the argument could be made that negotiations are in fact at an impasse.

All excellent points.
 
General Lee said:
Can people be forced to do the status quo? Yes. During our Contract 2000 talks a bunch of our guys decided they didn't want to work overtime (extra work--greenslips). Delta took them to court and the pilots lost. They were "forced" to accept overtime flying. "You will work more, and LIKE IT!"

Is this the same thing United is going through? Probably not, and I don't know how it will pan out. Very interesting, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL

I guess you forgot about the parking lot committees that did everything they could to persuade those who were greensliping to mend their ways. Emotions were running pretty high back then.

C2K negotiations = Greensliping Bad
Post 9/11 = Greensliping Good
 
"Thursday's AMFA announcement beefs up that threat, saying mechanics at Alaska Airlines, ATA Airlines, Horizon Airlines, Independence Airlines, Mesaba Airlines, Northwest Airlines and Southwest Airlines would strike in sympathy with United's mechanics if a bankruptcy judge approves the pension shift."


I highly doubt it.
 
This is complete and utter bullsh*t... but then again, what more can you expect out of UAL management? If they succeed in both venues i.e. throwing out contracts AND legally blocking a strike, then the rank-and-file membership should all just resign. No strike, just flat out resignations. Imagine if 80% of the workers resigned immediately following that decision.

Resignation is not the same as self-help/strike. You can quit anytime you want.
 
If UAL management succeeds in canceling the contracts AND prevents a strike, what choices do the employees have? Resign or adapt. How can any judge allow this to happen? If this is allowed to happen I wonder how many other airlines will do the same thing?
 
Freight Dog said:
This is complete and utter bullsh*t... but then again, what more can you expect out of UAL management? If they succeed in both venues i.e. throwing out contracts AND legally blocking a strike, then the rank-and-file membership should all just resign. No strike, just flat out resignations. Imagine if 80% of the workers resigned immediately following that decision.

Resignation is not the same as self-help/strike. You can quit anytime you want.

If I were UAL employee, I'd being doing all I could to convince my fellow employees to do as you suggest. I'd change but one thing. Under my plan, everybody would have a TWO WEEK resignation letter in their briefcase, just waiting for the courts to rule against us. As soon as the ruling came down, we would submit them "en masse".
Then you sit around hoping that enough of your fellows actually submit the letter.

I know very few people at UAL, and have no close friends there, so I can't begin to predict the outcome. I would hope that enough workers would follow through to leave the company with a decision. Let em leave, or find a way to keep em.

Best of luck ya'll
enigma
 
SlapShot said:
If this is allowed to happen I wonder how many other airlines will do the same thing?

All of them.

If this happens and ALPA doesn't wake up over this, they never will. Then again, these bozo's in Herndon have been sitting on their ass while the industry crumbles for the last few years already. This action by UAL, if it succeeds will doom what miniscule protections and leverage we have left. It will be the final and lasting kick in the crotch.

The ramifications to us all with this scenario go far beyond the mechanics at UAL. We are about to witness the final phase in the destruction of collective bargaining and contract enforcement as we know it today.

FDJ2 thanks
 
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Big Beer Belly said:
The U.S. Bankruptcy Code allows a court to dissolve labor contracts if the terms would prevent a company from returning to profitability. But the affected unions have said they would walk off the job if their contracts are terminated. Particularly galling to many is the prospect of losing their pensions.

Very interesting. Maybe this whole issue of beating up on labor is finally coming to a head.

Although I hope more knowledgable folks on this board will comment, here is my 2 cents until they do---

The courts and government want to see labor put 'back in thier box'. We have no real power as a group. Especially with the Railway Labor Act. The academic input on this 'unusual' combination of BK and the Act will do nothing more than comment on what continues to unfold. They will merely record it and put lessons learned in subsequent business texts.

The Republican congress and president will only show interest if it looks like votes will be lost.

I don't think the mechanics care if its legal or not to strike. I know I wouldn't. Management, lawyers and academics can debate the legality of a strike until the cows come home but if the worker has had enough he will walk.

Do I hope for a strike? No. I hope UAL management offers an olive branch and quits treating thier people like airplane parts. But I've learned that is not the American way in the new 'global economy'.
 
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With the financial shape UAL is in, what is the practical difference if they all strike or if they all quit?
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They will all be out on the street either way. . .
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Big Beer Belly said:
United maps novel legal strategy in labor fight


In short, United hopes to use the power of the courts to compel workers to accept new pay and benefit terms the company would dictate.


this will make the summer of 2000 look like a picnic
 
DaveGriffin said:
GL

I guess you forgot about the parking lot committees that did everything they could to persuade those who were greensliping to mend their ways. Emotions were running pretty high back then.

C2K negotiations = Greensliping Bad
Post 9/11 = Greensliping Good


Post 9-11 greenslipping is done to bring in needed revenue to keep this boat afloat. Back then, we had plenty of reserves in terms of cash. We don't have enough sim time now to train everyone, since the retirements have necessitated upgrades just to complete flights. We are booked solid, and at the same time we are slowly bringing back furloughs. The greenslips being farmed out now are out of necessity----160 Captains retired last Sunday. It has been like that for the last year---1200 Captains retired. And, greenslips now are cheaper than inverse assignments---which pay double versus time and a half for greenslips. Those flights will be flown, regardless. It is time for you to understand this point and maybe you will be back someday soon, although I wish you would try to look for other employment. Get back into the Navy Seals---starting working out and holding your breath underwater....


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I can't for the life of me see how the court can rectify the two positions. You can't have status quo, which prevents a job action under the rla, and violate the status quo at the same time. How the he!! does that work. Also, once the decision to strike is made, won't it dirupt things for st least a couple of weeks? People go back to work after a couple of days of "illegal job action" and they take a couple of weeks to ramp up again and move all the stranded pax.:confused:
 
Reebo said:
this will make the summer of 2000 look like a picnic

I doubt it will even get that far. This is coming down to one of two issues.

1) The unions will cave and management will get their way.

or

2) The unions will stand firm, strike and the company will collapse. I doubt the creditors are going to keep this thing alive during a work stoppage, given their financial condition. The key people is cash flow. Once that stops or is interrupted, they will pick up their toys and leave the playground.

There are several things that come to mind here.

One, only a fool will think that should UAL succeed on this 1113 motion and the pension issue, they won't attack the contract further. Either now or at a later point in time. They are looking (as all management) for a precedent.

Two, why is ALPA so silent? Where is the support for their brother unions? This smells just like the recipe from the 1983 disaster at CAL.

Three, how UAL management expects to get this company back on track after pumping their employees over and over is beyond me. These MBA's will never learn, especially in a service industry, you can not keep hosing your front line workers.
 
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Boeingman said:
Three, how UAL management expects to get this company back on track after pumping their employees over and over is beyond me. These MBA's will never learn, especially in a service industry, you can not keep hosing your front line workers.

That's true but until someone says enough, companies will keep doing it. I think the same thing about US companies moving their production outside the US. When will we wake up (including management)? The giant boob only has so much milk.
 

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