More -300's for SWA?

[CoopDog]

Hopefully someone can confirm this one. I heard it today. Comes straight from a SWA buddy who says there's a lot of buzz about it on the line and seen it in print (somewhere).

Word is SWA is looking for a good deal on some more -300's, and soon.

Anybody able to confirm or deny this? Gimme some good news!

 

[Snoopy58]

Coop -

I'll give you my opinion on this, advertising it as nothing more than one line swine's opinion, based on various crew room banter & a couple chats with moderately knowledgeable people.

In one word, "Nope!"

Two reasons why I think this: first, according to one of the moderately knowledgeable sources, while SWA did consider some -300's for a while, it decided firmly against them because they were EFIS birds, and the cost for the spare parts would be in the stratosphere. No matter how cheap you get the jets, you have to maintain them, and having the EFIS display instead of the ADI & HSI (we're not talking -700 style EFIS, just the 2 small tubes per side) would be a new system, requiring new stocks of EFIS (and all other different equipment) spares at each mx base . Plus they'd have to train all the pilots on the switchology for that display. But the real killer was the cost for the necessary spare parts stock, apparently.

Second reason, before very long SWA is going to start retiring -300's, with the long term vision to be all -700's. It's the most capable & fuel efficient aircraft, and it's "where things are at" for the future. Adding more -300's to the mix would delay the time when it's an all -700 fleet. There is some talk of buying some lightly used -700's from somewhere; depending on who you talk to, the deal SWA can get on the used birds may or may not be as good as they can get from Boeing for brand new -700's. I'm not nearly smart enough on all the financial aspects of the new vs used to speak with any authority on that. But you'll hear both versions of the "used -700" rumor out on the line.

However, I don't hear any "used -300" rumor, and I don't think it will come to pass. Though, in your buddy's defense, I don't doubt that, given a low enough asking price, SWA would quite happily look into buying some used -300 jets, and may have done so recently. I just don't think that the math worked out (nor is likely ever to work out) in favor of actually buying them. Engines or (compatible) spare parts, maybe. Jets, I tend to think not.

One line swine's opinion, worth almost all of what you paid for it, and I could well be wrong. But that's the fun of Flightinfo, right?

cheers,

Snoopy

 

[CoopDog]

misc. -300 thoughts

Snoopy,

Not trying to predict the future of used aircraft sales and aquisitions here, but given what my SWA buddy said last night, it sure started the gears churning on my end. By the way, CAL announced this morning of retiring about 19(?) MD-80's and -300's this Fall. Also, my buddies at U are saying that the company may go down to 245 mainline a/c by this Fall, possibly dumping some -300's. (but who knows what's going to happen?)

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a few more -300's come to SWA to allow them the opportunity for more down-time on the -700's when they add the blended winglets. You sure don't want to pull new airplanes off the line for a retrofit unless it coincides with a scheduled maintenance program. There would be too much revenue loss at stake for SWA.

I also hear they're going to be adding an additional FMC CDU and ACARS as well to the -300's, equating to more downtime for the fleet.

IMHO, adding a half dozen or so used -300's sounds like a good strategy for SWA, at least until their fleet modernization is completed.

But in reality, the real reason I want to see it happen is to get out of this STANKY DANG POOL! Guess I'm just ever hopeful.

Coop

 

[Snoopy58]

Coop,

let me wholeheartedly agree with you that seeing more jets in the fleet & all you poolies (stanky & all) on board with us will be a VERY GOOD THING, and the sooner the better!

As far as ACARS & the second CDU in the -300's, both of these are definitely coming; the ACARS is already in some of the jets (including at least one -300, which was a surprise to see); I think the word is about 80 or so jets have it now, and more get it as they go through scheduled mx. Haven't seen any -300's with the 2nd CDU yet. Putting this stuff in probably means more work during the scheduled mx, but I don't know if it makes for an appreciably longer time in the hanger or not.

As far as more jets, SWA can, I believe, step up the pace of jets they get from Boeing, at least to some extent. The question is, is it advisable to get jets faster than they're currently getting them; if so, is it a better deal to get them new from Boeing, or on the used market; and if that answer is "used," is it better to get -300's or -700's? As I understood things as it was 'splained to me, the EFIS -300's are NOT a good enough deal to be worthwhile. Gently used -700's may be.

None of which really answers the question if SWA will WANT more airplanes & on a faster schedule than they're already getting them from Boeing. It's a very, very conservative company, and the risks of expanding too quickly weigh more heavily on the minds of decisionmakers than the risks of lost opportunities from not jumping on every chance at expanding. Remember the comment about Herb correctly predicting 11 out of the last 3 recessions (or something to that effect)?

Offsetting the downtime for the mods makes sense to me, and I'd love to see growth. OTOH, we're getting 12 more new jets during the next 6 months & only retiring 6 old -200's, with (apparently) no new classes on the schedule. Those jets may be some of the offset for upcoming down-time. I don't know -- the people who crunch the numbers keep omitting me from their emailings!

Hang in there -- the industry is still in doldrums, but when it turns around & picks back up again, SWA will be ready to ROCK, and today's poolies will be riding the wave!

Snoopy

 

[Tanner]

Do the -700's at SWA have dual CDU's already?

 

[SWA/FO]

Yes

 

[Snoopy58]

Do the -700's at SWA have dual CDU's already?

Yes, they all do. They, like the -300's and -500's, are in the process of getting MCDU's, which allow for ACARS.

One rumor said that eventually, the plan is that the FO's side will have the ACARS MCDU, while the captain's will have a regular CDU. So far, all ACARS-equipped -700's I've seen have the MCDU on both sides. Perhaps that plan was for the -300's only; I don't know.

 

[Swiss]

New 737's?

Don't overlook the fact that Continental has delayed a lot of 737 deliveries until 2008. Also, Boeing has 9 -700's and 1 -800 parked in the desert right now. If SWA wanted to expand I think they could move in on a few of those a/c and get a good deal. The only question is will they? Hopefully we'll know more after 2Q results on 21 Jul. My fingers are crossed!

 

[OPIE01]

21 July, what a B-Day present

What a great Birthday present that would be for me to hear SWA is going to start training before the end of the year. Because of the great things that are happening there.

 

[jhill]

why would they buy a bunch of junk when new -700s are a dime a dozen? The cost of standardizing them makes this wole conversation ridiculous.

 

[StopNTSing]

why would they buy a bunch of junk when new -700s are a dime a dozen? The cost of standardizing them makes this wole conversation ridiculous.

My first reaction reading this thread was also "NO WAY! Ain't gonna happen!" The offical word from the GO has been no "new" -300's for quite some time now...and based on one line swine's experience with those hand-me-down pieces of junk we picked up from Morris, West Pac, and AA (AirCal), a part of me would be very happy to never have to deal with anymore "new" -300s (and the frequent mechanicals that seem to follow them around).

That said however, there is one possible source of some hard-ball -300s that could possibly be had on the cheap: US Airways. So who knows, only time will tell....

 

[Cardinal]

CAL's -300s referenced above are steam driven, for the record.