Misc. IFR Questions :: Have a look

[BoDEAN]

Studying for an upcoming interview, and want to make sure I am clear on some points. (All questions refer to 121 / Jepp Plates)

1) To know if a runway has/uses RVR, the only place to get this information is on the back of the airport diagram on the Jepp plates?

2) Takeoff minimums. These are also found on the back of the airport diagram. As far as needing a takeoff minimum, I am a little confused on this one. I have been trying to understand page 125 in the Jepp intro. This gets into RVR #'s, and what needs to be inop, what can be replaced, and so on. If anyone has a nice clean way of clearing this up I would appreciate it.

3) Part 121 alternates, departure alternates, when do you need an alternate? Basically, the 1-2-3 rule. 1 hour before to 1 hour after ETA, ceiling must be at least 2000 ft and 3 SM. If it is not, you must file an alternate. An approved alternate must have an instrument approach procedure. Fuel requirements for an alternate are 45 minutes. When do you need an alternate for an alternate? As far as a departure alternate, if the weather is below the approach minimums, you must file a departure alternate?

4) If the weather goes below mins after the marker, may you proceed on the approach? I would say yes. If prior to reaching the FAF, the weather is below minimums, I believe 121 operators are not permitted to fly the approach. Once on the approach, it is ok.

5) Part 121 Flight / Duty times:
I know the flight times are 8/30/100/1000 . Not to sure on the duty times.

Thanks in advance

 

[Andy Neill]

Takeoff minimums:
There are some variances with a particular operator's OPSPECS, but here is a path I would follow.
First, does the airport have higher than standard takeoff mins that you cannot get around with things like a climb gradient? If so, you must have those mins.
If not, do you have standard mins (1 mi or 5000 RVR for 2-engine aircraft).
If not, do you have 1600 RVR in the touchdown zone (or 1/4 mile Prev Vis if RVR not avail) AND ANY of the four following: Centerline lights, HIRLs, runway centerline markings, or adequate visual reference. The mid field RVR may be substituted for touvhdown if the touchdown RVR is not available.
If not, do you have 1000 RVR in the touchdown zone AND the rollout AND centerline lights? The mid may be substituted for either touchdown or rollout if not available.
If not, do you have at least 600 RVR in touchdown, midfield, and rollout RVRs (any one may be missing) AND both centerline lights and runway centerline markings?
If not, relax and wait for better wx.

You alternates need to be at or above alternate mins. How you calculate those mins varies somewhat among operators. You need an additional alternate if you have used an exemption at either the destination and/or your first alternate OR if the weather at BOTH the destination and alternate are "marginal". We have seen that the definition for marginal also varies among operators.

Part 121 Flight/Duty
There are no specified duty limits. There ARE specified minimum rest limits which vary depending on how much flight time was scheduled in a 24 hour period. At no time can you be on duty for more than 16 hours and still be compliant with the minimum rest times.

Didn't see anything in what you wrote besides these that was off.

 

[mar]

I'm here to help

1) To know if a runway has/uses RVR, the only place to get this information is on the back of the airport diagram on the Jepp plates?

That's one place. You can also look on the minima section of the approach plate.

2) Takeoff minimums. These are also found on the back of the airport diagram. As far as needing a takeoff minimum, I am a little confused on this one. I have been trying to understand page 125 in the Jepp intro. This gets into RVR #'s, and what needs to be inop, what can be replaced, and so on. If anyone has a nice clean way of clearing this up I would appreciate it.

This seems really complicated but it's actually quite simple. If you're Part 91 you can go zero/zero right? But if you're a commercial operator the FAA wants a little margin there, so they say, ok, Standard Takeoff Mins will be one mile for airplanes with two engines and 1/2 mile for airplanes with three or four engines. But some airports can be more challenging and therefore the FAA has said, no way, this airport will require "Higher Than Standard" T/O Mins. for commercial operators. But there are some airlines who appeal to the FAA for even lower than standard takeoff mins when they apply for their operating certificate. By performing certain training, these operators are authorized through specific Operation Specifications (OpSpecs) to conduct lower than standard visibility takeoffs. As BoDean was explaining, once you start stepping down the visibility from standard (1 mile - 1/2 mile) your first decrement requires "adequate visual reference" and either 1/4 mile or 1600 RVR. Then as the visibility gets lower you need more ground based equipment and features (RVR, runway markings and/or lighting, etc), until eventually you end up with the lowest possible visibility available to commerical operators: 600/600/600RVR.

3) Part 121 alternates, departure alternates, when do you need an alternate? Basically, the 1-2-3 rule. 1 hour before to 1 hour after ETA, ceiling must be at least 2000 ft and 3 SM. If it is not, you must file an alternate. An approved alternate must have an instrument approach procedure. Fuel requirements for an alternate are 45 minutes. When do you need an alternate for an alternate? As far as a departure alternate, if the weather is below the approach minimums, you must file a departure alternate?

You don't need an alternate for an alternate. That is to say, you would never fly to your destination, go missed, fly to your first alternate, go missed, fly to your second alternate, go missed and then fly for another 45 mins at normal cruise power. What you would do is this: File two alternate airports in case you're operating under the exemption BoDean mentioned and then carry enough fuel to fly to your destination, then to your *farthest* alternate and then fly for another 45 mins at normal cruise power. But in real life you would only make one diversion to one alternate. Having the second alternate is like having an Ace up your sleeve in case your first alternate goes down too.

You must file the departure alternate when the vis drops below the *approach in use*. In other words, there's one runway that's served by both an ILS and a VOR, but today the ILS is NOTAM'd out of service and the min vis for the VOR approach is 2 miles. Therefore if you need to make an emergency return you'll be shooting the VOR approach and so you must file a departure alternate when the vis drops below 2 miles.

4) If the weather goes below mins after the marker, may you proceed on the approach? I would say yes. If prior to reaching the FAF, the weather is below minimums, I believe 121 operators are not permitted to fly the approach. Once on the approach, it is ok.

That's all true, but remember that *visibility* is the critical factor not the reported cloud base. Example: You're outside the FAF and you need 200 and 1/2. Tower issues new weather and it's now 100 and 1/2. You're still legal to begin the approach. And if you have in sight at the DA any of the items that constitute "runway environment" you're legal to land. If you just have the approach lights in sight you may descend to 100' above the touchdown zone. And if you have the red side row or red terminating row lights in sight you may descend from 100' but not land until the runway environment is in sight (threshold markings, VASI, edge lighting, etc...)

5) Part 121 Flight / Duty times:
I know the flight times are 8/30/100/1000 . Not to sure on the duty times.

I always have to review these before a checkride. There is a difference between domestic and supplemental and I just can't keep it straight. All I can remember is Supplemental with an extra crewmember the limit is 12 hours of flying in a 24 hour period. Rough.

Good luck.

 

[great cornholio]

1. You can find it there.

2.This one depends on the company's ops specs. My company has 3 lower than standard t/o mins. 1/4sm vis we just need adequate visual referece. So anything that lets you tell runway from not runway is cool. 1000/1000 takeoff we need RVR of 1000. Touchdown RVR is controlling and to be totally cool we need both touchdown and rollout RVR to be at or above 1000. However one can be broken and then we use to Midfield as a sub. To do a 1000/1000 t/o we need runway edge lights and runway centerline lights. Finally we can do a 600/600/600 t/o. All 3 RVRs need to be at or above 600. One RVR can be INOP and we can still go so 600/500/700 = illegal go back to ramp and pay rampie 5 bucks to run over midfield RVR and now you get 600/INOP/700 and you can takeoff.

3. Yup its the 123 rule to let you know if you need an alternate. There are two reasons where my company would file 2 alternates. Once again this is an ops specs thing. First reason would be if we were dispatched under 3585 and the second reason would be if our destination AND out alternate wx was "Marginal" The defination of marginal is different at each company (ops specs) mine says that marginal is when dest wx is 1000/3 AND alt wx is 600/2. 3585 is a whole mess which lets you dispatch to an airport if the taf has a tempo with wx being 1/2 of the mins. Its a whole big mess and not worth saying much more about it on here. Fuel load says that if we have 1 alt then we have to fly to our dest then fly to the alt then fly for 45 mins. If we have 2 alts then have enough fuel to fly to the dest then the FARTHEST alt then for 45 mins. As far as wx mins for the alternate once again thats an ops specs thing. We have the 1 nav 2 nav method here. Basically that says that if there is only 1 navaid that provides approaches into the airport then then we have to add 400 ft and 1sm to the mins and the wx must be at least that in order for it to be a legal alt. If there are 2 navaids that serve that airport then we have to add 200ft and 1/2sm to the highest mins then thats legal. So for 1 nav ILS is 200 and 1/2 so add the 1 nav rule and wx has to be at least 600 and 1 1/2 for it to be legal. 2 nav method with 2 ILS of 200 and 1/2 wx needs to be 400 and 1 and its legal. If its a VOR and an ILS and the VOR has like 400 and 1 then we need 600 and 1 1/2 for it to be legal. You need a takeoff alt when the wx at the departure airport is below the authurized mins on the approach in use. So if you are doing a 1000/1000 t/o then you will probably need a t/o alt.

4. Inside the FAF you are good to go. Also remember that the only thing that is controlling in order to shoot the approach is the vis. So as long as you have the vis on the approach plate you can shoot the approach no matter what the ceiling is.

5. Some airlines are grandfathered into 135 work rules for thier 19 seat planes like the Beech 1900 then the flight times are 34 in 7. 120 in a month. 1200 in a year. You can never be scheduled to fly more than 8 hours in between rest periods, but you can be scheduled to fly more than 8 hours in a 24 hour period. I know that sounds weird. You must always be able to look back 24 hours and see at least 8 hours of rest. Anything less than 9 hours of rest is considered reduced rest and requires compensitory rest the next rest period. Anything less than 8 hours of rest is just straight up illegal. The amount of normal and compensitory rest depends on how much flight time you've done in the past 24 hours and is in kind of a matrix deal. Normal rest is 9/10/11 depending on flight time. I think the flight time limits for this are less than 8, inbetween 8 and 9 and more than 9 flight hours in a 24 hour period. Anyways reduced rest is 8/8/9 and the comp rest is 10/11/12. Oh yeah don't forget about "legal to start legal to finish" You can't be scheduled to fly more than 8 hours in between rest periods but if you get delays you can fly till your day was done as long as your schedule doesn't get messed with (IE adding or taking away legs). My record for flight time in a duty period is just over 10 hours. Gotta love Legal to start legal to finish.

Well I think I pretty much covered what you were asking. Hope it helps and hope I didn't confuse you more.

 

[Tug Driver]

You must file the departure alternate when the vis drops below the *approach in use*. In other words, there's one runway that's served by both an ILS and a VOR, but today the ILS is NOTAM'd out of service and the min vis for the VOR approach is 2 miles. Therefore if you need to make an emergency return you'll be shooting the VOR approach and so you must file a departure alternate when the vis drops below 2 miles.

where do you file the departure alternate? just in the remarks box?

 

[mar]

File it with dispatch

No sir. If you're working with a 121 operation your flight plans are *probably* filed by the dispatcher. In that case you need to be in contact with them and just file the alternate with them.

But if you're a one-man-band at a 135 outfit and filing your own flight plans then, yeah, you can put it in the remarks section.