Minimum time that insurance requires for SIC?

[Kingair1181]

I recently finished training for my CMEL/CSEL and have been starting to work towards my CFI and CFII. However, a family member, who is high up for a large corporation, asked me to fax him a copy of my resume. He assured me that he could get me a job flying right seat in one of their company jets. Several fellow pilots have told me that I probably won’t meet the insurance requirements as far as flight time goes (approx. 400 hrs of TT, which 220ish is multi/complex).



My question is what are the minimum flight times and requirements that insurance companies want you to have to fly as an SIC? Can a company simply pay a higher premium to cover a low time pilot? Anything else that I should be aware of or ask about?



Thanks.

 

[EatSleepFly]

If it's part 91, almost anyone can get insured (within reason) it seems. 135 seems to be a different story.

I know a few lucky SOB's who got F/O jobs flying jets part 91- everything from a bigger Citation to a GIV- with about your total time or not much more.

It's all about networking and luck, and you have at least one of the two!

 

[HMR]

Depending on the size of the dept. and type of A/C, the insurance mins can be very flexible. Lots of guys have gotten jobs by having relatives on the "inside".

PS-Everyone will hate you but at least you'll have a sweet gig!

 

[2000flyer]

It all depends on what the company wants to pay in premiums. Just like other insurances, the less experience the more the premium. Operators used to have considerable leverage with insurance companies, but in the last few years those roles have reversed.

Some insurance companies are requiring SIC's to go through a full initial at an "approved" (read FSI or SimuFlite) training. My first jet job I did 3 TO/LDG and attended a recurrent 3 months later. We wouldn't be able to do that now.

2000Flyer

 

[Capt1124]

We have always had low time FOs and the last time I submitted an applicant the underwriter was very uncooperative. "Open Pilot" for SIC is 2500 TT, 1500 ME, 100 ME Jet, 25 make and model. That seems to be excessive to me. 1500 total and 300 multi would seem to be good to me.

I don't really know how they make the decision. If you can get insured with those times let me know the underwriter.

 

[Yesiflyhogs]

Incredibly, a couple of the big carriers (I hate to name names) name little to no requirements for even the PIC (beyond the minimum required by the FAA). On 2 different policies I looked at recently (including a widebody bizjet), in the 'Approved Pilots' section it stated simply 'as designated by the Chief Pilot'. I fly in a large department that (knock on wood) hasn't bent any metal in a long time. That seems to play a heavy role in the specific requirements. You didn't mention aircraft type, but if we are talking straight wing Citation, your definitely good as long as you can actually fly.

 

[psysicx]

Thats like Time Warner they only require ATP mins.

 

[Kingair1181]

The underwriter is actually what I am worried about. Albeit they are a good sized company, they have a small fleet (not sure exactly but I'd venture to say maybe 2 or 3 aircraft). Personally, I am not excepting to get a call back saying they'd like to hire me, because it all seems too good to be true, but hey - one can hope right? From what I have been told by my uncle (the family member), unless the cost of insurance is through the roof, they will cover me, but there seems to be a chance, perhaps even a good chance from what I have read, that their insurance simply won't cover a pilot with my time. I have also been told by some friends that 500 hrs is a magical #, and that if I am 100 hrs short of it I am not sure if I should just spend the money and buy my hours or invest about an equal amount of money, become a CFI, teach for a while, then go back when I have the time.

Thoughts? Thanks again for the help.

 

[Lead Sled]

I have seen the minimums listed in 3 different ways: 1. Fixed minimums, 2. Named pilots, and 3."As determined by chief pilot"

Currently we are flying under "named pilots"; however, our open pilot warranty for PIC requires 3500 total logged flying hours, 2000 hours ME, 1000 hours turbine, and 100 hours make and model and FlightSafety within the preceding 12 months.

The open pilot warranty for SIC is 3000 total logged flying hours, 1500 hours ME and 50 hours make and model and FlightSafety within the preceding 12 months.

I could have probably negotiated lower minimums had I have felt the need, but there are plenty of contract pilots out there who meet those minimums should the need arise.

Granted there are policies that state "as determined by chief pilot", but the underwriter is assuming that the chief pilot will use some disgression in what he determines to be appropriate experience. If he/she starts using a lot low-time inexperienced guys he can expect to see that reflected in the premium come renewal time. I've worked for several companies that had that clause in their policy. They also had company manuals/departmental policies that listed minimum times and experience levels. The insurance comany was just allowing the chief pilot some flexibility.

FWIW (and it's just my personal opinion) don't be in too big a rush to get yourself into the right seat of a jet. Invest the time in your future to learn how to fly. And I'm not talking merely manipulating the controls. Take a job or two where you really learn how to fly in weather and how to use the system. Chief pilots like guys who have been "around the block" a time or two.

'Sled

 

[ultrarunner]

We use named pilots and also have an 'open' pilot exclusion. If I recall, our open pilot SIC reqirements are:

2500 TT, 1500 ME, 100 ME Jet, 25 make and model. AND simulator-based training within the previous 12 months.

We carry 100 mil liab. on a new, medium sized jet.

I think this is pretty standard with USAIG. AIG was a bit more forgiving, but at the expense of a higher premium.