Military Pilots Advice for their sons/daughter

[NCaviator]

I did not say you don't need a 4 year degree. I was only advocating that many public and private colleges offer the same degree at night and it's much easier and cheaper. This is what I did after my freshman year and it worked out great. I had no debt from college or flying.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Do I hear it again, someone saying you can be successful in life without a college degree?

Of course you can be successful in life without a degree. See my career examples above. I think most folks believe that it's tough to be successful in aviation without a degree. That, IMO, will change in the future...

 

[pilotyip]

I did not say you don't need a 4 year degree. I was only advocating that many public and private colleges offer the same degree at night and it's much easier and cheaper. This is what I did after my freshman year and it worked out great. I had no debt from college or flying.

But what about all the advocates of "You must attend a 4-yr college full time" Could they be wrong? I have been beat up here by many times for saying anything against the almighty "full 4-yr degree".

 

[Bjammin]

I think it's a very tough question to answer, because as you can see from the above posts, career and flying fufillment truly depends on the individual.
If your kid is truly into military flying then if he goes civilian he may always regret not having the chance to go Mach 3 with his hair on fire. If he becomes an airline pilot he will listlen to the war stories of others and always wonder. If he loves military flying he can make a good career of that for 20 years, get out, and then decide to do whatever, having had some amazing training in leadership and experiences you can never imagine.
Having said that, if airline flying is the ultimate goal you have to consider your options caefully. I had great military experiences, but fly with guys younger then me that are 747 captains and will make millions more then me over their airline career lifetime. Every year delay in getting on with an airline is a year you don't make the top salary at the END of your carrer.
My choises worked out about perfectly. I enlisted in the USCG out of High School and had the GI bill pay for some of my college while earning military years towards my retirement. I went to Embry-Riddle and got an Aero-sci degree as well as my CFII. Both have helped me throughout my carrer. I got picked up for the Navy, went to AOCS, got selected for jets, got winged, flew EA-6B's in the fleet for 5 years and also got some F-18 time.
I then was a T-45 flight instructor for 5 years and was lucky not to have to do a non-flying job. I joined the reserve unit at my squadron and became a 747-400 FO with a major overseas airline 4 years ago. I have over 21 years with the military and will have more then 25 years with this airline, hopefully. I LOVE flying for both a tactical reserve squadron and as a FO flying 74's over the pond.
It all worked out, but for many this road can be filled with potholes and many change their careers all together.
All this advice from guys that have actually been down these roads is a great way to get information and then get into an intelligent discussion with your son.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

If someone really wants to enter this industry then have at it. I would advise anyone looking into our industry to really consider doing something else.
It's been a blast for me (USCG/Army AD, Army Guard, airline, light corp, and fractional now) rotors, props and jets, but that's me. Many deployments, crash pads and now very nice hotels. It certainly is an interesting industry, but it is what one makes it.
They them to earn a degree in something other then aviation. Have something to fall back on if the medical is lost.
I think the guard route is the best, but take the quickest way into the cockpit whether it's guard or AD and have fun. Seems all my guard buddies have units that will deploy them as much as they want and that'll sure build experience. Great networking abilities too.
This industry in a post-9/11 time is not what it once was and if they don't know any different then they'll do just fine.
Good luck!!

 

[puck_11]

I'm a newly winged naval aviator and I wouldn't have it any other way. I graduated from UND and did the aviation degree thing (which was fun, but outside of aviation doesn't mean a thing). While I was still in college I met with a Hornet guy from my school who told me that he had been out for about 5 years. None of his friends from college even gave a second thought about flying military, they were all after that coveted CRJ slot and didn't want to deal with the military. After about 5 years most of them were burnt out, only half of them were still in the game, most wished they had done the military thing and were quite jealous of the type of flying that we do. Fast forward a few years, I've been in for three and can tell you that a lot of my friends are getting out of the aviation business. And all of my friends were the typical, I just want to fly, I don't care what I get paid, I'll work my tail off, etc.

Typical quote from a senior/retired military pilot to young new guy: "I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat (but not pay), and you'll never regret joining the military to fly."

Typical quote from a senior/retired pilot to new guy trying to go into civilian aviation "(sound of sucking breath in and making twisted face) Well you better have a good backup."

I know because I was both of these young kids getting this advice.

 

[pilotyip]

I'm a newly winged naval aviator and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Typical quote from a senior/retired military pilot to young new guy: "I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat (but not pay), and you'll never regret joining the military to fly." Typical quote from a senior/retired pilot to new guy trying to go into civilian aviation "(sound of sucking breath in and making twisted face) Well you better have a good backup."

Flying for the Military, I think particularly the Navy, gives you skills beyond the cockpit. These skills will allow you to succeed outside of the military and the cockpit. You will find if you want to go the MBA route at a top school when leaving the Navy, these schools are very receptive to your management and leadership skills. So flying for the Navy is really the best of both worlds and gives you many options.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

I think the degree card is waaaay overplayed but that's the way the game is played now. Smarts trumps honor and integrity in today's world. Years ago it used to be just get a degree. Now you the pundits say get a masters, et.al. Keep the liberal college professors gainfully employed.

 

[Mamma]

I am fully on board with the idea that the 4-year degree should not be a deciding factor. When I went to college I would have to say 80% of the guys in my fraternity (if not more) had no idea what they wanted to do. They just got some useless business degree or political science degree then went on to do something totally unrelated. What a waste of money, time and liver/brain cells. We had no perspective to really understand what the professors were saying also. I think the model should be like this: Graduate high school, get hired by someone and let them train you. If you show potential for management or want to expand your horizons later down the road, then go to college. Now if you want to be something specialized like a doctor or biologist, then by all means go to college, but I think many jobs out there do not really need one to have a college degree.

 

[SIG600]

College isn't about getting schooling for a particular skill set, it's about proving that you're self motivated enough to further your education and succeed at it. It tells an employer you're a self starter, and won't need supervision to get things done. In a world of pilots that are a dime a dozen needing jobs, I'm sorry but you need to set yourself apart from the crowd. If I have 2 pilots side by side with equal flight experience, one with a degree and one without, I'm hiring the guy with the education every time.

 

[Mamma]

College isn't about getting schooling for a particular skill set, it's about proving that you're self motivated enough to further your education and succeed at it. It tells an employer you're a self starter, and won't need supervision to get things done. In a world of pilots that are a dime a dozen needing jobs, I'm sorry but you need to set yourself apart from the crowd. If I have 2 pilots side by side with equal flight experience, one with a degree and one without, I'm hiring the guy with the education every time.

Do you realize what you just said? College is not about getting and education but proving you have self-motivation! Why should one shell out 40 grand for this? Why can someone not prove they have motivation in other mediums? Say a kid graduates from high school and sets up a successful computer business? Or a kid graduates from high school and joins the military for 6 years? Or someone becomes and EMT and saves lives for 4 years? Is that not motivation? Why is college the only accepted medium in many jobs? A lot of people I saw go through college did so on daddy's dime, were drunk 4 nights a week and barely passed (my freshman year). In fact, many just dropped classes they were not doing well in and did the 5-6 year program. I think these people need supervision!!! What kind of motivation is that showing? I have a master's degree but I do not feel really motivated because of the degree. I am motivated by my goals. I have a strong work ethic instilled upon me by my parents. I make goals, map a path to achieve them and then get to work. Integrity and the Golden Rule are everything to me. That is why I am successful. Not college. I am not saying you are wrong, but just presenting another viewpoint.

 

[Mamma]

Flying for the Military, I think particularly the Navy, gives you skills beyond the cockpit. These skills will allow you to succeed outside of the military and the cockpit. You will find if you want to go the MBA route at a top school when leaving the Navy, these schools are very receptive to your management and leadership skills. So flying for the Navy is really the best of both worlds and gives you many options.

So the Army, Air Force, Coast Guard do not give you skills beyond the flight deck? Come now! I would put a battle tested Army captain up against many of us flyers any day.

 

[pilotyip]

I am Navy

So the Army, Air Force, Coast Guard do not give you skills beyond the flight deck? Come now! I would put a battle tested Army captain up against many of us flyers any day.

What else would you expect. I saw a some of my buddies get into the Harvard MBA program. I don't have much experience with other services, other than Joint Staff. My son was Army he is doing well, no harm intended.

 

[Mamma]

What else would you expect. I saw a some of my buddies get into the Harvard MBA program. I don't have much experience with other services, other than Joint Staff. My son was Army he is doing well, no harm intended.

No harm noted. Just a little banter. I have had friends from the Army and Air Force go to Harvard also. I think they like getting the occasional officer in their MBA program.

 

[SIG600]

Do you realize what you just said? College is not about getting and education but proving you have self-motivation! Why should one shell out 40 grand for this? Why can someone not prove they have motivation in other mediums? Say a kid graduates from high school and sets up a successful computer business? Or a kid graduates from high school and joins the military for 6 years? Or someone becomes and EMT and saves lives for 4 years? Is that not motivation? Why is college the only accepted medium in many jobs? A lot of people I saw go through college did so on daddy's dime, were drunk 4 nights a week and barely passed (my freshman year). In fact, many just dropped classes they were not doing well in and did the 5-6 year program. I think these people need supervision!!! What kind of motivation is that showing? I have a master's degree but I do not feel really motivated because of the degree. I am motivated by my goals. I have a strong work ethic instilled upon me by my parents. I make goals, map a path to achieve them and then get to work. Integrity and the Golden Rule are everything to me. That is why I am successful. Not college. I am not saying you are wrong, but just presenting another viewpoint.

I totally agree with you. I think a kid that joins the military, learns a HIGHLY technical skill (that I'm completely incapable of doing), and serves 4-6 years is probably smarter than most college grads out of school. However I'm just telling it like it is, now how it should be. A piece of paper over the long term is worth more than actual experience. Just look at the average pay over a 20 year career of a college grad to a non-college grad. Not saying they are any smarter, or a non-degree holding individual is any less of a person, but it's what employers are looking for. Why does the military demand a 4 year degree to be commissioned officer? There are plenty of people out there without degrees capable of leading from the front and leaning forward.