Mike Best will side with Airtran on sick calls

[71driver]

For all of you Mikey fans I was just talking to a buddy of mine who posed this question to Mikey " Mike are you going to do anything about the company putting out that message around the holidays that says "if you call in sick you NEED a Doctor's note" my friend said he thought is was BS.....but

Mike Best said that there are guys that are abusing the sick calls. He also said if the guy wasn't sick and the company felt the guy needed a week of then what was/can the NPA do to defend the guy right??

To which my friend said what the f--- are you talking about!!!Sick time is part of your compensation package how you spend it is your perogitive, remember the acronym:

I illness
M medication
S stress
A alcohol
F fatigue
E emotional

There are many things that don't show up on a thermometer that you should stay out of the cockpit for;

the NPA SHOULD ALWAYS BACK YOU REGARDLESS, PERIOD!!!!!!
Folks this is your president elect??

 

[Ty Webb]

The Contract says the Company can require a doctors' note in certain circumstances. Mike is gprobably just quoting the Contract . . . . not sure what your point is. If you want to change that part of the contract, then put pressure on the next NC to change it.

Personally, I think it shouldn't be called "Sick Time", but "Sick/Personal Time".

Long story short- get it in the Contract, and I'm sure Mike will back you. Don't expect him to "re-interpret" the existing contract. . . . we have too much integrity to play that card .

 

[CatfishVT9]

At one of the road shows Alan said we have a CA that bids for Newark overnights then flies the leg to Newark and calls in sick the next day. He's done this numerous times since it's where he commutes from.

Should the NPA stand behind this guy? Turds like this are the reason the note thing was brought up. Personally, I'd like to see skeds reassign this guy every week immediately after he checks in.

 

[maxblast72]

Turds like this are the reason the note thing was brought up.

Exactly, it is always the 5% of a workforce that mess it up for the majority. Just look at the flight attendant point system we have.

 

[Ty Webb]

At one of the road shows Alan said we have a CA that bids for Newark overnights then flies the leg to Newark and calls in sick the next day. He's done this numerous times since it's where he commutes from.

Should the NPA stand behind this guy?.

Well, the short answer is "YES, DEFINITELY".

Unfortunately, this management team does a great job of "demonizing" certain people, especially people who are NPA officials who are effective at the table.

"Buying in" to some rumor spouted by Allen "Neville Chamberlain" Philpot that sounds highly suspect is doing a disservice to your own brothers, and to yourself.

When the facts actually come out, we usually see that the "real story" is a heck of a lot different than the spin we heard originally.

Usually, one of our own NPA brothers was made out by the company to be a lazy, lying horse-thief, when he was the same able and responsible person we all knew two weeks prior. . . . Shame on them, and shame on us for tolerating this BS.

Therefore, we need to vigorously defend EVERY grievance and EVERY termination. If you were the one that was sh1tcanned and on the street, unable to even communicate your side of it to your fellow pilots, well, you would expect and DEMAND that your union work their ass off to get you back on the property- I know I would.

Stick together, and give your NPA brothers a little credit, my firend. See you on the flight line.

TW

 

[Just thinking]

Integrity

Mike has the integrity to say and do what is required when it may not be politically correct or the easiest thing to do. What this union needs at this point is an individual who has the ability to lead. Leadership that does not spin the truth or throw its members in front of a bus for the sake of their own desires. Re-education of the pilot group is critical for the future success for this group and the company. Strong merger protection as well as scope. Someone who will be there when scheduling tries to give you something illegal and doesn't tell you to fly it and grieve it. This process will not be overnight but his outlook is the most proactive and intelligent that I have heard.

 

[Lear70]

Well, the short answer is "YES, DEFINITELY".

Unfortunately, this management team does a great job of "demonizing" certain people, especially people who are NPA officials who are effective at the table.

"Buying in" to some rumor spouted by Allen "Neville Chamberlain" Philpot that sounds highly suspect is doing a disservice to your own brothers, and to yourself.

When the facts actually come out, we usually see that the "real story" is a heck of a lot different than the spin we heard originally.

Usually, one of our own NPA brothers was made out by the company to be a lazy, lying horse-thief, when he was the same able and responsible person we all knew two weeks prior. . . . Shame on them, and shame on us for tolerating this BS.

Therefore, we need to vigorously defend EVERY grievance and EVERY termination. If you were the one that was sh1tcanned and on the street, unable to even communicate your side of it to your fellow pilots, well, you would expect and DEMAND that your union work their ass off to get you back on the property- I know I would.

Stick together, and give your NPA brothers a little credit, my firend. See you on the flight line.

TW

Well, since I am currently on the receiving end of that kind of treatment, my .02 cents, FWIW (probably not much right now):

The Association bears a legal, ethical, and fiscal responsibility to back EVERY pilot 100%, regardless of their personal belief of "guilt", until the matter is settled either by meeting, System Board, or Arbitration.

Period.

EVERY pilot who pays dues is ENTITLED to this protection. It's part of the Railway Labor Act, and cannot be dismissed because it is inconvenient. Not that I agree with the guy who calls in sick every time he gets home on his last day, I believe that's unethical as well, but I'm not his judge or jury, as I'm certain I don't have all the facts and that may be a stretched version of the truth or a total fabrication, how do you know?

Yes, there's always the 2% or 5% or whatever who ruins it for a lot of honest people but, then again, there should be no problem for getting a doctor's note for an illness, even if it's after the fact. The contract does not say what the note has to entail, you could simply get a doctor to write a note saying "This pilot was self-medicating for a head cold on ____date." The FAA allows self-medication, and some medications are no-fly medications.

The company has, however, already showed their intention to totally disregard doctor's notes if it doesn't suit their purpose. Case in point, I went to both a company-appointed doctor AND a company-appointed physical therapist, all of which corroborated my injury, yet I was *STILL* terminated.

THAT is why every pilot deserves and is ENTITLED to representation to the best of the Association's ability with the best and most appropriate attorneys that can be found, even the guy who is demonized by the company or the NPA.

That's why we pay dues.

/rant

 

[Spidey]

Well, since I am currently on the receiving end of that kind of treatment, my .02 cents, FWIW (probably not much right now):

The Association bears a legal, ethical, and fiscal responsibility to back EVERY pilot 100%, regardless of their personal belief of "guilt", until the matter is settled either by meeting, System Board, or Arbitration.

Period.

EVERY pilot who pays dues is ENTITLED to this protection. It's part of the Railway Labor Act, and cannot be dismissed because it is inconvenient. Not that I agree with the guy who calls in sick every time he gets home on his last day, I believe that's unethical as well, but I'm not his judge or jury, as I'm certain I don't have all the facts and that may be a stretched version of the truth or a total fabrication, how do you know?

Yes, there's always the 2% or 5% or whatever who ruins it for a lot of honest people but, then again, there should be no problem for getting a doctor's note for an illness, even if it's after the fact. The contract does not say what the note has to entail, you could simply get a doctor to write a note saying "This pilot was self-medicating for a head cold on ____date." The FAA allows self-medication, and some medications are no-fly medications.

The company has, however, already showed their intention to totally disregard doctor's notes if it doesn't suit their purpose. Case in point, I went to both a company-appointed doctor AND a company-appointed physical therapist, all of which corroborated my injury, yet I was *STILL* terminated.

THAT is why every pilot deserves and is ENTITLED to representation to the best of the Association's ability with the best and most appropriate attorneys that can be found, even the guy who is demonized by the company or the NPA.

That's why we pay dues.

/rant

...'Strong merger protection'...the best statement I've seen among the many statements in this fickle time of the airline world (1968-2042)...and I really don't like liars...except for the lil ones I might have said as a kid (Sir, her pants never came off)... (silently thinking, 'off of the Earth.')...and don't go missed approach til ya get to the missed approach point...PERIOD (since we're usin that to make our points here)...

 

[CatfishVT9]

Ty,

Maybe your slacks were too tight to understand my point (OK, maybe I didn't 'splain it well enough ). I'm talking about guys who make the rest of us look bad and make all of us take on the vindictiveness of the company.

When Alan made that comment, I asked why he hadn't jerked a knot in that guy's a$$. You can still represent all pilots while sticking a finger in the chest of someone who needs to be straightened out.

There should be some line of communication between the CP office and the Union where the company can bring up an issue (before it gets to a termination level), the union takes a look and either tells the company they are wrong, or let the guy know he needs to get with the program.

 

[ultrarunner]

IMO, "sick-time" should go the way of the defined benefit plan.

I don't care what industry you're in, all time accrued should be PTO-time. THAT way, an employee takes their personal time for just that, their personal reasons. PERIOD.

 

[Spud]

Yep, Catfish- it's call the professional standards committee. It's not being utilized effectively in my opinion.

BTW flew over NMM yesterday -looked quiet- but it was a Sunday.

Now back to abusing my vacation time!!!

 

[The Victors]

IMO, "sick-time" should go the way of the defined benefit plan.

I don't care what industry you're in, all time accrued should be PTO-time. THAT way, an employee takes their personal time for just that, their personal reasons. PERIOD.

Well said!!!! This sick note thing is a Fu%king joke. Are we in third grade?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

..... professional standards committee......

Do we even have one of those?????

 

[Captain Jeff]

Yes, His name is John Barnhall. He called me a few years ago to confront me about leaving flight attendants at the hotel. I never knew anything about them in the first place.

 

[71driver]

actually captain Jeff when he said "how can we back the pilot if he called in sick and he was at a baseball game" another words contract aside HIS PERSONNEL FEELINGS were this guy shouldn't call in sick period.

I agree with the previous response it is personnel/sick time how you spend it and what you use to determine if you should or shouldn't fly should never require a Doctor's note we are all adults with families and should/are the final authority on whether we enter the flight deck or not.

The Doctor's note is total BS anyway and harassment/intimidation as well, the company knows it, you know it, we all know it, so lets call it for what it is period...anywho,there is no Doctor in their right mind that would insist in writing after a visit with them that you should fly after you tell them you should not, for safety reasons.

 

[tomgoodman]

No perfect sick-leave plan

IMO, "sick-time" should go the way of the defined benefit plan.

I don't care what industry you're in, all time accrued should be PTO-time. THAT way, an employee takes their personal time for just that, their personal reasons. PERIOD.

Couldn't that just lead to a new problem? Suppose a pilot has the flu, but wants to hoard his PTO-time for a vacation, or has already used his PTO-time for the year. Wouldn't he be likely to fly sick? It's the same temptation that occurs when a pilot is allowed to sell back unused sick leave for extra money.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Yes, His name is John Barnhall. He called me a few years ago to confront me about leaving flight attendants at the hotel. I never knew anything about them in the first place.

Huh, I've been here for a few years now, and never heard of, nor seen anything related to pro standards. Interesting.

 

[ultrarunner]

Couldn't that just lead to a new problem? Suppose a pilot has the flu, but wants to hoard his PTO-time for a vacation, or has already used his PTO-time for the year. Wouldn't he be likely to fly sick? It's the same temptation that occurs when a pilot is allowed to sell back unused sick leave for extra money.

Quite the contrary...if ALL accumulated time is simply just PTO time, then the employee will be encouraged to limit the use of such time for sick leave when they are really not fit for flight. IMO, MOST employees will use such time for sick-time when they are really sick. And the bonus side is the employee will wind up with quite a bit more PTO to be used for other time off.

HR managers the world over have been shifting to PTO-only type plans for quite some time. The airlines are just WAY behind with this "sick time" classification.

 

[PCL_128]

actually captain Jeff when he said "how can we back the pilot if he called in sick and he was at a baseball game" another words contract aside HIS PERSONNEL FEELINGS were this guy shouldn't call in sick period.

I would have told him the same thing. Whether you think we should have PTO time or not, the current CBA doesn't have it. We have sick time in our current contract, and the contract says that the company has the right to request a doctor's note in certain circumstances. Your original post is a non-issue.

 

[71driver]

pcl128

the company has the right to request a doctor's note in certain circumstances.

pcl128 I think you are a green guy, no insult intended, but you if that is what the contract states then it needs to be watched like a hawk watching a field mouse, anytime you give a company that statement "certain circumstances", or "operational neccessity", you better have a strong union which we don't.

You commuter guys need to wake up and demand a union that will back you regardless that IS AN ISSUE!!

 

[PCL_128]

pcl128 I think you are a green guy, no insult intended, but you if that is what the contract states then it needs to be watched like a hawk watching a field mouse, anytime you give a company that statement "certain circumstances", or "operational neccessity", you better have a strong union which we don't.

I was a union rep at a regional that took "contract reinterpretation" to an all new level, so I'm well aware that management needs to be watched, but that's not what you've said in this thread. You've said that it should be treated as personal time, with no questions asked by the company. That's simply not the way the contract is written, and Mike is correct if he did said that the company is within their rights to request a doctor's note. If you think it's a priority to change this section of the contract to PTO, or to simply prohibit the company from demanding a doctor's note, then relay that opinion to Mike and whoever becomes the new NC. Complaining that Mike or anyone else is simply adhering to what the contract says is not a valid complaint. We expect the company to adhere to the contract, so we should do the same.

 

[Spud]

It's not that difficult. You only get so much sick time- it's contractually restricted. Just like vacation time. As far as I'm concerned the only way you could actually abuse it is for 200 guys to call in sick for x-mas or something of that nature.
The company can ask you to get a doctor's note already, but they have to schedule it and pay for it. Like someone already pointed out it's not an option on any kind of company wide scale for them.
If they ask you to get your own note tell em to pack sand.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'd be happy to provide them a doctor's note; all they have to do is positive space me to ATL or MCO, pay for the doctor's office visit, and positive space me back, paying me the daily minimum, of course.

If it's worth $600. to them, I'm available. Just don't make the doctor a proctologist.

TW

 

[Spidey]

I was a union rep at a regional that took "contract reinterpretation" to an all new level, so I'm well aware that management needs to be watched, but that's not what you've said in this thread. You've said that it should be treated as personal time, with no questions asked by the company. That's simply not the way the contract is written, and Mike is correct if he did said that the company is within their rights to request a doctor's note. If you think it's a priority to change this section of the contract to PTO, or to simply prohibit the company from demanding a doctor's note, then relay that opinion to Mike and whoever becomes the new NC. Complaining that Mike or anyone else is simply adhering to what the contract says is not a valid complaint. We expect the company to adhere to the contract, so we should do the same.

yer right!...on target, we ALL have a level of responsibility...kinda like what those training "geriatric nazi's" tell us about jez flyin the jet...71pilot, do you know Mike Best pretty well?...a boy with many challenges...as I told him...convince me otherwise, since ya put that as yer 'bottom line'...

 

[Spidey]

I'd be happy to provide them a doctor's note; all they have to do is positive space me to ATL or MCO, pay for the doctor's office visit, and positive space me back, paying me the daily minimum, of course.

If it's worth $600. to them, I'm available. Just don't make the doctor a proctologist.

TW

...are you the whining slacker know-it-all boy in the pic...or the the guy with the mustache...your new callsign is 'Avatar Boy'...have a sense of humor...NEVER put yer own pic on the squadron ops wall board...you'll never fly lead...

 

[Spidey]

Quite the contrary...if ALL accumulated time is simply just PTO time, then the employee will be encouraged to limit the use of such time for sick leave when they are really not fit for flight. IMO, MOST employees will use such time for sick-time when they are really sick. And the bonus side is the employee will wind up with quite a bit more PTO to be used for other time off.

HR managers the world over have been shifting to PTO-only type plans for quite some time. The airlines are just WAY behind with this "sick time" classification.

...you sound like hillary clinton..

 

[CatfishVT9]

I'd be happy to provide them a doctor's note; all they have to do is positive space me to ATL or MCO, pay for the doctor's office visit, and positive space me back, paying me the daily minimum, of course.

If it's worth $600. to them, I'm available. Just don't make the doctor a proctologist.

TW

Isn't that your Proctologist in your avatar?

 

[PanPan]

Isn't that your Proctologist in your avatar?

He is a proctologist, but they are just "Good Friends".

 

[Ty Webb]

I should have know better- I used the word "Proctologist", and suddenly, all the a-holes show up.

 

[Spidey]

I should have know better- I used the word "Proctologist", and suddenly, all the a-holes show up.

...yeh...ya might be right...but if ya can't laugh at yerself...ya can't laugh at anyone else...and we didn't want you to be lonely...mmm...does a proctologist work with more a-holes than an LCC crewmember...probably not...and we don't wear rubber gloves...'cept for Vince...