Midwest won't hire pilots back

[Moustache]

I was at skyway during the summer of 2007 which is when this all went down. Basiclly NWA has wanted MKE for it own for a long time. Every flight in and out on NWA is full. And TPG at the time thougth it was a great investment. Build up the airline and then sell them off to make a buck. But then 2008 hit at all went to hell with fuel prices and the economy. So now basiclly it is buy buy Midex which I have a feeling will happen by the end of this year. It was a great airline at one point, but now they are just like any onther airline out there, except for the cookies which are good. When midwest does go under Delta will swoop in and take MKE for its own.

I don't think Delta has a hardon for mke like NWA does (did). Delta has turned their back on Airtran before...lets see if the do it in MKE

 

[Colonel Savage]

I don't think Delta has a hardon for mke like NWA does (did). Delta has turned their back on Airtran before...lets see if the do it in MKE

DAL will already have a hub in MSP; operating MKE as a hub will just mean competeing with itself for traffic, particulary from the central WI area.

AAI might consider configuring a part of their fleet for the same style service as MEH origionaly had (cookies and all), to differentiate itself from DAL, and perhaps recapture the same business traveler market MEH developed.

 

[fam62c]

DAL will already have a hub in MSP; operating MKE as a hub will just mean competeing with itself for traffic, particulary from the central WI area.

AAI might consider configuring a part of their fleet for the same style service as MEH origionaly had (cookies and all), to differentiate itself from DAL, and perhaps recapture the same business traveler market MEH developed.

The MEH business model was part of what killed them and even now I don't think that their CEO fully understands that, he fought change as hard as he could and it contributed to the destruction of the company. The vast majority of travelers simply are not willing to pay enough extra money for premium seating and amenities to make it worth it. This is especially true in periods of economic weakness when businesses are looking at every expenditure under a microscope. Taking seats out of the plane does more harm than good and it's one of the big reasons that Southwest and AirTran have succeeded where Midwest failed. AirTran has the perfect business model for this environment and removing seats and adding premium items that people are unwilling to pay for would be a huge mistake. Every airline that has tried a premium service model has either failed, or in the case of the majors, added the seats back in once they figured out that the premium the customers are willing to pay is not enough to offset the lost revenue from the missing seats. The people at AirTran understand how to run an airline, the people at Midwest don't which explains what's been happening in MKE over the past year.

Midwest was successful in the 1990's with their premium service model because they had cheap planes, cheap fuel, cheap labor, little or no competition from RJ's and LCC's on most of their routes and an unprecedented economic expansion where business travelers didn't care what airline tickets cost because business was so good. Even under these conditions I don't think that the premium service model was the key to their success, it was the fact that they had direct flights from MKE and they were the only ones doing it in most markets.

Midwest never figured out after 2000/2001 that the 1990's were an economic anomaly that may never be repeated. They were way too slow to figure out that things had changed and aggressively adapt their product to the new realities. The CEO killed Midwest through his lack of action and inability to realize that times had changed and Midwest needed to change as well. Midwest had great customer service coupled with a business plan that wasn't going to work and no amount of chocolate chip cookies was going to offset a CEO who didn't do what needed to be done when he needed to do it.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Very well then. You make some good points.

 

[maxblast72]

I thought United announced a month or two ago they were ripping out 25% of their business class seats on Trans-Atlantic flights and replacing with coach due to weakness in the premium product.

Our Flight Attendants (using the fare code off the seat maps) say that most of the people sitting in our Business class are airport upgrades not passengers that paid for full fare business class seats at time of booking.

 

[Colonel Savage]

And when you add the fact that MaxJet, Eos and SilverJet all went out of business with all premium class service, it sends a message about what pax want.

Who wants to pay a bunch of bucks for meltdowns during weather events, long lines, etc. May as well go on the cheap with lower expectations.

 

[fam62c]

I thought United announced a month or two ago they were ripping out 25% of their business class seats on Trans-Atlantic flights and replacing with coach due to weakness in the premium product.

Our Flight Attendants (using the fare code off the seat maps) say that most of the people sitting in our Business class are airport upgrades not passengers that paid for full fare business class seats at time of booking.

Exactly my point, most people won't pay extra and reduced seating simply results in a self-imposed "revenue cap" on the aircraft, especially in a weak economy. Time after time they have done surveys that have proved the following: first, the vast majority of travelers shop for the cheapest fare. Second, everybody loves more comfort and amenities but almost nobody will pay more for it so the airlines that spend more to provide a more luxurious product have to eat most of those costs.

I have always believed that Midwest would have been more successful with a standard, dual class model right from the beginning. They didn't need to "differentiate" themselves with premium service, they did it with direct flights. The problem with their premium model was that it only made money in a small number of markets and required a very favorable economy and competitive environment to work. Their model severely limited their expansion opportunities and caused the company to remain very small which eventually created a cost problem. It also invited competitors like AirTran into the market who knew Midwest could never match their fares and be profitable doing it with 25% less seats in the planes and no overall corporate economy of scale to spread out their fixed costs. I think that AirTran will come out with majority ownership of the MKE market eventually because they have the cost structure to make it work and they seem to want the market bad enough to really make an effort. Midwest has given up as far as I can tell and Delta has enough on their plate that they will eventually get tired of fighting AirTran in MKE for a market that's not all that important to their post-merger network.