Midwest suspends plans to hire back flight crews

[thepotato232]

...Or blame USAir for paying its pilots less to fly the 190 than RAH does for the 170? Anyone?

Minimaniac's point is valid. By the time CBAs get to the regional level, they're literally feeding off the scraps of whatever mainline gave up. For an example of the kind of support regional guys can expect by trying to play by their own rules and not playing the mainline toadie game, please reference Independence Air. If mainline doesn't vote to give up 86-seat aircraft, there is no undercutting from the regionals. Period.

 

[Minimaniac]

While I agree in part it was not your decision to relax scope at the majors, it was your fault to negotiate CBA's that far undercut major airline contracts. You tout your payrates here stating 119hr for a 175!!!, while not also looking at the fact that AWAC 146 capts were making 120.00 per hour in 2001, and the FOs were making 50, let alone the rates on those 146's and F28s being flown by mainline years ago. So yes, blame mainline, but also blame yourself for flying the aircraft cheaper, and therefore not making it financially worthwile to fly the airplane at mainline.

I do agree on your points about pay, but let me also say this: The 175 is fairly equivalent to the 146 jet. We have pay rates that approach those of 2001. How many other airlines have recaptured their 2001 payrates on equipment? RAH is an evolving airline. Our rates will not match mainline rates for decades to come. This is because we have not been unionized and working to improve a contract for nearly as long as mainline carriers. Did American realize their heyday after only 4 contracts? Did United leave us all drooling on their fourth attempt? No. Decades of hard work was put into those contracts before they were dismantled by both corporate and senior labor greed.

Our current contract was built before the E170 was a reality. And yes, our FO payscale is downright unlivable. But do not ignore the fact that CAL had a 30/hr first year payrate, and USAirways had a $26/hr payrate prior to the merger with AWA. Our negotiating committee has stated their intention to improve FO pay, especially now that FO's are no longer based in small outstation towns, but rather in expensive major cities. Again, it is a matter of contract evolution. We only get to update ours every four years, while the company evolves daily. Even in my short time at RAH, the company has doubled in terms of fleet size and pilots employed, grown from one certificate to three, has added four new partner airlines, added a new fleet type, and has tolerated mass migrations of flying for our partners (geographical hubs shifts). Our next contract won't blow anyone away, but you will see appreciable gains in many areas. Delta didn't begin by flying L1011's and MD-88's, and their pilots weren't born into those planes with a great contract. Since we don't have much chance to move on to those established airlines anytime soon, we now have more reason to fight for a long term, respectable contract.

So to many of you (though certainly not all), stop looking down your noses at us. Many of you had the good fortune of walking into great airlines with great contracts. You weren't around to appreciate the hard work of those in the 50's, 60's, and 70's that gave you the good life for the next 30 years. I don't doubt that many of you have seen trying times in your careers, but I do think many of you don't appreciate how much more work went into making this a desirable profession. RAH pilots have a choice to make as to whether they want to put in the hard work now. We will have to learn as we go. So far, the pilot group has made good decisions, and has adapted to the changes of the industry as fast as our contract allows. We continue to build upon the past without selling out our futures.

There hasn't been a mainline future for us for a long time. Blaming us is like blaming Obama or Bush for the current economic troubles. Those seeds were sown many red and blue presidents ago, and most were sown not by presidents but by a multitude of congressional seats. RAH is what it is today not because of our CEO or our pilots, but because of the votes and greed of many pilots of recent mainline past (or should have been past until they got 5 more years). Regionals and Majors are now so intertwined that the relationships cannot be simply undone. The web did not grow under my watch, though.

 

[n757st]

I do agree on your points about pay, but let me also say this: The 175 is fairly equivalent to the 146 jet. We have pay rates that approach those of 2001. How many other airlines have recaptured their 2001 payrates on equipment? RAH is an evolving airline. Our rates will not match mainline rates for decades to come. This is because we have not been unionized and working to improve a contract for nearly as long as mainline carriers. Did American realize their heyday after only 4 contracts? Did United leave us all drooling on their fourth attempt? No. Decades of hard work was put into those contracts before they were dismantled by both corporate and senior labor greed.

Our current contract was built before the E170 was a reality. And yes, our FO payscale is downright unlivable. But do not ignore the fact that CAL had a 30/hr first year payrate, and USAirways had a $26/hr payrate prior to the merger with AWA. Our negotiating committee has stated their intention to improve FO pay, especially now that FO's are no longer based in small outstation towns, but rather in expensive major cities. Again, it is a matter of contract evolution. We only get to update ours every four years, while the company evolves daily. Even in my short time at RAH, the company has doubled in terms of fleet size and pilots employed, grown from one certificate to three, has added four new partner airlines, added a new fleet type, and has tolerated mass migrations of flying for our partners (geographical hubs shifts). Our next contract won't blow anyone away, but you will see appreciable gains in many areas. Delta didn't begin by flying L1011's and MD-88's, and their pilots weren't born into those planes with a great contract. Since we don't have much chance to move on to those established airlines anytime soon, we now have more reason to fight for a long term, respectable contract.

So to many of you (though certainly not all), stop looking down your noses at us. Many of you had the good fortune of walking into great airlines with great contracts. You weren't around to appreciate the hard work of those in the 50's, 60's, and 70's that gave you the good life for the next 30 years. I don't doubt that many of you have seen trying times in your careers, but I do think many of you don't appreciate how much more work went into making this a desirable profession. RAH pilots have a choice to make as to whether they want to put in the hard work now. We will have to learn as we go. So far, the pilot group has made good decisions, and has adapted to the changes of the industry as fast as our contract allows. We continue to build upon the past without selling out our futures.

There hasn't been a mainline future for us for a long time. Blaming us is like blaming Obama or Bush for the current economic troubles. Those seeds were sown many red and blue presidents ago, and most were sown not by presidents but by a multitude of congressional seats. RAH is what it is today not because of our CEO or our pilots, but because of the votes and greed of many pilots of recent mainline past (or should have been past until they got 5 more years). Regionals and Majors are now so intertwined that the relationships cannot be simply undone. The web did not grow under my watch, though.

I certainly see your point, but I don't know that you see mine totally. You can blame "greedy" mainline pilots, as I also do, because they are PART of the problem. However, you flying around with a contract that severly undercuts the associated mainline CBA is also a major problem. If you were flying that airplane at the same rate as mainline (not Airways, those rates equally suck) there would be far less financial motivation to farm the flying. Also, first year pay is irrelevant, all those companys you named go to 50-80 dollars per hour second year, where yours goes to 32, so the comparison IMO is invalid. So yes, blame mainline, but don't also pass all the blame there, you are almost equally responsible, as is every other regional.(including my own, though we have one of the better contracts out there) Also, I know you have not been negotiating as long as the mainline guys have, but also realize that you are flying the largest none specialized regional aircraft to ever be put into service it this country, an aircraft that directly on almost a 1:1 seating and comfort basis replaced mainline aircraft, remember that when you go back into the negociating room. ( If you want to consider none specialized, then the BAE-146 certainly would be the largest, but it was also the highest paying regional aircraft ever in the USA, with Capts bringing home ~140,000 per year. Also, at least at AWAC that was a mountain hauler, and would not have been in service without a need for service to ASE )