Midwest fires ground crews; rehires them at Skyway pay

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

If you are losing $43 million a year, this isn't going to do squat except alienate the rest of the employees, and make them all start wondering when it will be their turn.

The problem is with the whole business plan, and this doesn't do anything to change that. The first newhire ramper that dings up a 717 is going to offset any savings from this "brainstorm" pretty quickly.

Perhaps a better solution would be to can some upper management weenies who can't seem to figure out how to increase revenues, instead of canning some poor slobs making $500. a week working outside in the middle of winter in MKE.

Ty,

Thanks for the reply. While you feel I'm a "dingleberry" (which is your right), I was asking a rhetorical question. I'm a line-pilot, not an armchair CEO. I show-up for work on-time, do my job to the best of my abilities and in contract compliance, hope I don't bend anything, hope I have a job the next day, and pray my paycheck (or direct-deposit) doesn't bounce.

Yes, I have complaints about how Midwest is being managed and wish the airline was better managed. BUT, you and I and any other line-pilot can scream/shout/whine/cry/complain/bitch/argue in the Crew Lounge, bar, or on FlightInfo until hell freezes over about what any airline "should" be doing to remain competitive and profitable. But, in the end, management is going to execute their business plan as they see fit. Given your financial industry experience, you should understand that.

I don't have the "answers" on what Midwest/Skyway should do. All I can do is hope for the best and plan for the worst.

I wish you luck at AirTran.

HMM

 

[ultrarunner]

Heard that the Midwest rampers are to blame for their own demise. They turned down "Union Representation", because that would not fit well with this turnip they call Midwest. The mechanics did the same thing and they lost over 300 jobs.

Snake, you must be confusing 'union representation' with job security. Bzzzzzzt. Wrong.

While union representation in "some" cases will let the company recall a laid off employee, it in no way will secure a job.

If a company needs to lay off 150 pilots or 150 FA's, etc.... they will. And they did!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

Thanks for the reply. While you feel I'm a "dingleberry" (which is your right), I was asking a rhetorical question. I'm a line-pilot, not an armchair CEO. I show-up for work on-time, do my job to the best of my abilities and in contract compliance, hope I don't bend anything, hope I have a job the next day, and pray my paycheck (or direct-deposit) doesn't bounce.

Yes, I have complaints about how Midwest is being managed and wish the airline was better managed. BUT, you and I and any other line-pilot can scream/shout/whine/cry/complain/bitch/argue in the Crew Lounge, bar, or on FlightInfo until hell freezes over about what any airline "should" be doing to remain competitive and profitable. But, in the end, management is going to execute their business plan as they see fit. Given your financial industry experience, you should understand that.

I don't have the "answers" on what Midwest/Skyway should do. All I can do is hope for the best and plan for the worst.

I wish you luck at AirTran.

HMM

I agree with what you are saying (and I retract the "dingleberry" part- gotta go re-read that). I guess what I am really trying to say is that this move smacks of cheapness and my guess is that any "savings" it produces will likely result in a decrease in dedication on the part of the remaining employees.

A senior person with a $14./hr job has something invested in the airline, and could be motivated to perform, whereas a $7./hr guy will be gone as soon as he finds something marginally better, and really just cares about keeping warm until something better turns up.

If you have 200 flights a day in MKE, and the new minimum wage earning ground crews take on the average, an extra 1 minute to get power hooked up, that equates to 200 minutes at 700 lbs/hr = 2300 lbs of fuel or 350 gallons of fuel, or $500. per day . . . . $180,000. per year in extra fuel, to say nothing of engine times, APU cycles, etc. . . . . that's before training costs, extra lost bags, overtime costs due to less reliable workforce (a $14./hr guy is not going to be turned over three times a year) damaged equipment due to inexperienced operators . . . . . it seems to me that the savings just aren't there.

I say this, by the way, as someone who worked the ramp during the last "Great Aviation Depression" . . . . I feel like I have an understanding of what goes on down there, and it's easy to tell the good ramp crews who give a d@mn from the ones that don't.

 

[DH106]

Ty, you're absolutely right about having ground crew that are motivated and dedicated. I worked my way through school for an (unnamed) airline at ORD during the early 1990's, and they paid their ramp workers minimum wage. This was the result: never-ending delays, accidents, injuries, carelessness, and sabotage. Oh, and add to that the two-week turnover rate. They were hiring any warm bodies, right off the street, which included people with arrest records, drug dependency problems, etc. The company was achieving short-term gains, at the expense of long-term losses.

In a three-month span:
- An A-300 wing was driven into by a heavy loader
- A DC-8 main landing gear was broken in-half by exeeding the towbar angle
- Two employees negligenty caused a fuel spill in the tunnel beneath an active runway, because they were racing
- A fuel explosion nearly blinded a worker out of carelessness
- An employee had all toes crushed in a belt loader out of carelessness
- Two employees, one a supervisor, were dismissed due to failed drug tests
... many other stories ...

Most pilots have no idea what it's really like working on the ramp. Ground workers who are decently-paid and motivated can keep the operation on-time and profitable, while those who are poorly-paid and trained will not.

 

[Fallingbrick]

If you are losing $43 million a year, this isn't going to do squat except alienate the rest of the employees, and make them all start wondering when it will be their turn.

The problem is with the whole business plan, and this doesn't do anything to change that. The first newhire ramper that dings up a 717 is going to offset any savings from this "brainstorm" pretty quickly.

Perhaps a better solution would be to can some upper management weenies who can't seem to figure out how to increase revenues, instead of canning some poor slobs making $500. a week working outside in the middle of winter in MKE.

I agree with TY. Planned savings will only be 1M annually by MEH’s own calculations. Any of the “savings” that survives the inevitable and expensive loss of efficiency will be consumed by increased fuel costs. I feel terrible for the people impacted by this decision and am not optimistic about the futures of those that remain (myself included) .

 

[smellthejeta]

Most pilots have no idea what it's really like working on the ramp. Ground workers who are decently-paid and motivated can keep the operation on-time and profitable, while those who are poorly-paid and trained will not.

I hate the perception by pilots that rampers are 1) Expendable, 2) worthless, and 3) should be paid minimum wage. You hear regional pilots complain all the time about rampers -- ASA/Comair in ATL, formerly ACA/AirWisky rampers in ORD, for starters. You RARELY hear major airline pilots complain about their rampers, because at $40,000 a year, those senior rampers have jobs worth holding on to. Come to think of it, the only complaint the majors have with their rampers is that they're overpaid.

It's even better on the FBO side. You can tell the decently paid rampers from the crappily paid rampers by how long the guys sit around before getting you a fuel truck.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yup.

It's the difference between having a professional push crew, and a flock of "orange-bellied nut-scratchers".

 

[NewBlue]

US Airways did this about ten years ago in PIT. Shortly after the new terminal opened they transferred all the E gate positions, gate agent & ramper, to PSA. The main line employees transferred out if they had enough seniority or had to accept the "newhire" wages and food stamps.

 

[Snake]

All this "poor little rampers" talk is bogus. They are blue collar, easily expendalble to the lowest bidder. They do manual labor, no different than bagging groceries. Yes, at $40,000 grand a ramper is OVERPAID. As a shareholder of this airline, I am glad we are outsourcing. It was way over due. You whiners out there need to look at the hidden facts before you trash the management of this company for getting rid of this dead weight. And yes, they might have had a better chance if they would have been UNION.... Freaking weinies deserve what they got along with the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** ass Mechanics.

 

[smellthejeta]

All this "poor little rampers" talk is bogus. They are blue collar, easily expendalble to the lowest bidder. They do manual labor, no different than bagging groceries. Yes, at $40,000 grand a ramper is OVERPAID. As a shareholder of this airline, I am glad we are outsourcing. It was way over due. You whiners out there need to look at the hidden facts before you trash the management of this company for getting rid of this dead weight. And yes, they might have had a better chance if they would have been UNION.... Freaking weinies deserve what they got along with the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** ass Mechanics.

Sorry for pissing in your wheaties, but the same can be said about what you guys do too. In fact, your jobs are expendable, and are farmed out to the lowest bidder. If that wasn't true, we wouldn't see GoJet, Freedom, Mesa, several other regionals, and the countless 135 operators that give you a beeper, no days off, and two grand a month. Attitudes like yours give me no sympathy for your plight, because I, as a member of the travelling public (I buy the tickets that pay your salary) don't see why you should be paid $150,000/yr when somebody else will do the same job for less than half of that.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, at $40,000 grand a ramper is OVERPAID. As a shareholder of this airline, I am glad we are outsourcing. It was way over due. .

Not only is your flame bait tiresome, it isn;t even mathematically correct. A $14./hr ramper is not a $40K a year employee. More like about a $28,000. a year employee.

Mybe some day when you grow up, and actually work as a pilot (instead of pretending to be one on an internet message board) some $15,000. a year ramper will marshall you into a baggage cart . . . . and then all three of them will swear that the lead gave you a "Stop" signal wehich you disregarded . . . . . I am sure your FO will be so sick of you he will agree with them, and you'll be out on your rear, trying to make your mortgage, you frigging moron.

 

[crashpad]

(I buy the tickets that pay your salary)

Yeah and it's about the same for a non-rev ticket. It'll sure be nice when the ticket prices go up and you're back in the drivers seat of your 74' Bonneville.

 

[smellthejeta]

Yeah and it's about the same for a non-rev ticket. It'll sure be nice when the ticket prices go up and you're back in the drivers seat of your 74' Bonneville.

When I had NRSA privileges, those tickets were free, and I never paid a dime in taxes. I hear it's just not the same anymore. Sucks that they can up the cost of an NRSA pass for the employees, but not the travelling public, doesn't it? A certain alliance likes my business so much, they stick me in first class whenever there's a seat, regardless of fare paid. I only spent about $1,000 last year for that privilege, too.

Don't hold your breath for ticket prices to go up. It hasn't happened in the last twenty years, what makes you think it will happen now? My '74 Bonneville doesn't have that many miles on it because it's cheaper for me to get chauffered around in the back of the metal tube than it is to put the miles on my Bonneville.