Midwest, AirTran what's the right price?

[AFcitrus]

If you look at straight numbers then it may appear that it could take a while to upgrade however let me add something to the fray. We are adding airplanes at the same rate now as when I was hired in '02. I got the upgrade at 2 years and 8 mths. What we should be saying is that if you want to upgrade, you can in 2-3 years. You see, a large % (about 63%) to be precise of our pilots are commuters. Over the last 4-5 years (pre-Midwest offer) most commuters bypassed upgrade for a better quality of life. That being said, lower senority pilots got upgrades quicker. This may slow until the Midwest stuff settles down.

 

[FlyWolf]

I am surprised that the pilots are against it though. It would appear to be a good deal for them - more airplanes (other than md80's) more upgrade possibilities, a more secure future, no new rj's coming in to steal their flying...etc...

Good luck to everyone involved (God know's we need it)

TV9, I think I might have the answer, I would say the main reason is that the respect and good rapport we enjoy here between the pilots and the chief pilot office, we are lucky in the fact for an airline our size we were among the first to get CASS, we also managed to get unlimited j/s, full use of Flica, and so on. Granted we have our own problems but its far less than what other pilot groups are going through.

Second reason, is that a big % of our pilot group started with Midwest when they were KC Aviation, (15-20 years ago) and they are set in their ways, they know our GOM by heart and don't want to change anything, most of them live here, have a good schedule and make a good pay, while a lot of the majors lost their pensions, we still have ours.

We also have a top notch first class training dept, great checkairmen that treat you like a professional, I am yet to be treated bad by anyone at Midex.

So, if you think about it, most guys don't want to change a good thing. As I said, we do have our own problems and we are far from perfect, but who is perfect in this industry? Still, it beats the unknown.

Again, just my .02c

 

[maxblast72]

Talked to one of the crew planners in the crew lounge this morning and asked him how many more Captains we were making this year (I just upgraded and was wondering what the reserve time was going to be). He basically said we were done upgrading for the year. I asked him about all the 717 Captains that need to replaced (for the ones that are transitioning to the 737 in Feb and March) and he said that we already had the replacements in the pipeline (not exactly what I was expecting to hear).

There were about 258 people hired just in 12 months behind me (from the Jan 1 2007 seniority list). It took me 2 years 7 months to upgrade. It looks like the upgrade times will creep up to 4 or 5 years pretty quickly as our % growth slows down. FO payrates in our next contract should not be ignored as the company likes to tell FO's not to worry about FO payrates since they will be Captains soon.

 

[Lear70]

That's about right as far as moving up goes. 5-6 a month until the last two or three months at 10 a month.

I'm still confused about the math? 250 new-hires = 70 new pilots?

 

[-9Capt]

If this is indeed true then the blame should be put where it belongs, at the top because they breed this attitude in their middle managers. For everyone's sake lets hope that S.K and K.G. have their hands in this and they receive their due. Miserable humans these two are. An embarrassment to the species.

Actually, they're worst than that.

 

[MSNFlier]

what would AAI really get out of a MidEx merger?

How much does a used 717-200 that's less than 5 years old or so cost? All 717s have the same engines, correct (RR BR715s)? Ultimately, I think this is the only thing AAI is after - aircraft common to a major portion of AAI's fleet that come with a group of already-trained pilots to fly them which will instantly boost capacity. If you look at their offer, it's only 1/2 cash and the other stock in an airline that may or may not survive long-term (AAI, that is - I know, it might also be true of Midwest). Forgetting the stock portion, the cash is about what? $140-$180 million? Is that a good deal for 25 717s - way less than $10M/each?

As a mere private pilot, I guess I don't see this proposal through the prism that many of the accomplished professional pilots frequenting this board do. Also, as a native of Madison (MSN) and lifelong resident of WI, I confess to secretly hoping that AAI fails because we like our Midwest just the way it is...maybe not real profitable (going forward, that is), but profitable enough and it's our airline.

We are an odd bunch, us 'Sconnies, but we like what we like, especially our airlines and a our beer!!! :beer: