Mid Air Collision here in FL

[TurboS7]

I cannot believe what I am reading. I always thought that this new generation of pilots where basically pretty stupid, now this thread just confirmed it. I hope that every professional pilot gets on this thread and chews some a%%$$##. See and avioid is what it is all about. If you know how to look for traffic you will see it.I would consider you a very unsafe pilot if you truly have that attitude, if you do the FAA would pull your certificates in about 2 seconds. I fly with TCAS all the time, it is a great tool but useless if someone forgets to turn their transponder on. Countless times I have seen traffic before the TCAS said anything about it. The FLL incident is the exception, it happend about 2 miles from my house. FXE is a very very busy airport and has its share of many, many problems. Cheers. Hire only old professional pilots.......and the age limit better go past 60. Shoot, ifYeager can fly an F-15 at 79 I should be able to fly a fully automated piece of junk past 60.

The majority of pilots on this thread have the picture but the attitude expressed of a couple is absurd. It only take one of them to run into me, since I fly all over the world I consider them a threat.

 

[flywithastick]

I bet it would scare most of us to know how many near misses we've had and not even been aware of it. I believe I do a pretty good job of looking around, but have had many instances where the other planes appear from behind blind spots, overtake me or I close on them quicker than intended. just have to look closely.

I was taking a check ride a once and there was a King Air departing the area just ahead of us. Assuming he was faster than the Seneca we were in, I just put him out of my mind. After a minute or two, the examiner asked if I had the King Air. I said yes thinking he had outrun us at our 12 (mistake not being honest). In another minute or so I spotted him, still at 12 and we were closing at 1500' or so in trail, with their plane blended into the horizon. kept my "oh, sh#t" under my breath and gently eased right. gotta keep your brain going and eyes open. still don't know why they were flying so slow. probably setting up for a sim inst apch.

another one that kept me from an unintended close form flight once is checking out your shadow on the ground. If you can see it, particularly low and near airports, make sure you're the only shadow down there. Not good all the time, but when mid-day and sunny (when a lot of VFR folks are out) it can help.

 

[El Cid Av8or]

I'll say that I practice the "see and be seen" concept every time I go up, day or night. What I mean is the nav lights are on and, if equipped, the strobes are as well. Also, I always use the landing light when I get close to the airport and especially in the pattern. I've had instructors tell me that the cost of bulbs was not worth it and when I reply "the cost of bulbs is potentially not worth your life?" they tend to get really quiet.

 

[avbug]

Too many pilots today seem to think that the radio fends off traffic, or that TCAS will keep them safe.

You can ask any in bound traffic to please advise...but what about those with lost com, or those with no radio, or those that dont' hear you (ala, instructor and student in the pattern)? Do you plan for that? If so, then making the call in the first place is a moot action; see and avoid. Anybody inbound or in the pattern? Gee, just us guys with no radios.

That TCAS will keep you safe from airplanes with the transponder off, or in operative, or from aircraft without electrical systems.

The first and foremost rule of traffic avoidance, weather operating IFR or VFR, is a set of Mark I Eyeballs, current edition.

The closest near-collison I've had to date was only a few years ago while coming off the Kirk Complex fire in California. Near Big Sur, I was climbing out inside the temporary flight restriction in T-130, a C-130A. I had just contacted ATC and had been given a squawk code. I looked down to check the code, and looking up, passed a Brasillia close enough to note that the captain was wearing Rayban Outdoorsman II sunglasses. He was talking to ATC, on the job, inside a TFR with heavy smoke and low visibility.

TCAS and radar didn't make a bit of difference. I was climbing off a drop in smoke, and didn't expect him to be there, but acquired him visually. I don't think he ever saw me...after all, he was flying IFR...why look outside the airplane?

Why? Because what you don't see kills you. Look outside, and be alive.

 

[ShawnC]

TCAS... never heard of such this... let me look in the Cub....

Nothing like it there... how about in the C172...

All I got is this radio....

TCAS is great in a terminal enviroment in aircraft that must be flown heads down a majority of the times, but a C172 is flown visually a majority of the time.

VFR is just that visual, see and aviod, I gaurantee you even though they won't admit it, one or both of these guys had their heads in the panel. This is Florida, when I have flown with a TCAS I was amazed at the sheer number of targets. I don't care if you are IFR, unless you are single pilot you need to have your head outside the cockpit, there is just too much traffic here in Florida.

I personally am sick of hearing about dead pilots, espically when it could have been avioded if they had followed the rules. No I am not a bleeding heart, but if people see flying a small plane as a dangerous act, it could mean more restrictions for the activity I love.

 

[a-v-8er]

The area between St. Augustine and West Palm Beach along the east coast of Florida is the most congested training area in the world according to the Orlando FSDO . Having said that, I totally agree that there's just too much traffic here!

I've heard freight flyers inbound to Orlando via V267 saying that this route scares them more than anything else when flying.

Being an instructor in the area, I must admit that, at least once a week I brush death or get so close that I can easily count number of occupants onboard another plane or read tail numbers. It's not that we who work here aren't looking outside the cockpit. I stress that from day one with my students and anytime I'm up there I'll try to spend the minimal time looking inside my self. I continuously scan in sectors all around the plane, but given the job as an instructor there'll be times when your head is buried inside, when it shouldn't be. We use the radios too, but as previously mentioned, you CANNOT rely on radio calls. People might be talking, but not listening. Some airplanes ignore the radio calls and others aren't equipped. It's a tool to be used to enhance safety if possible, not exclude looking outside!

No matter how much you look outside (at least in this area), you simply cannot catch every target! The sky is a big place, but occasionally it's awfully small and the ONLY thing you should trust is you eyes and if that's not enough, hope that the next pilot has his head outside of the cockpit!

Also, being very familiar with the area and its airways, approach corridors and the areas popular landmarks helps! I'll avoid these to the extent possible. Don't forget to look outside when you're under radar service too. A lot of people tend to relax when ATC has issued a squawk code and you're receiving flight following or sequencing for landing. I've had a handful of unpleasant encounters when I was on approach frequency and for whatever reason ATC did not report traffic that otherwise should have been a traffic alert. Remember, it's a time permitting service from ATC and in this area they are usually way too busy to catch everything!

Now, when you're flying IFR and practicing approaches, DON'T think for a second that you shouldn't have to pay as much attention outside! When you're in the clouds, that's when you can focus on the instruments. If you're shooting approaches (VFR or IFR) and as long as you're in VMC conditions, you'd better keep your head outside!

If there's traffic in the pattern at the airport to which you're shooting an approach, make sure you'll not conflict with that traffic by either aborting the approach early, staying at a higher altitude (at least 500' above TPA) or coordinating a straight in approach to landing for example. Remember, that there are pilots out there who won't understand phrases like "inbound on the GPS 8 approach", so sometimes you might want to clarify more when talking on CTAF. For example, "inbound on GPS 8, three miles west, straight in runway 8".

Again, keep your head outside the cockpit!!! It's not a guarantee that it will save your life, but you might save someone else's including your own! Keep it safe!

 

[mckpickle]

Come on people mid-airs shouldn't happen in VFR. GET YOUR EYES OUT OF THE COCKPIT!!! All it takes is one of those two with a good scan the accident probally could have been averted and two people could have come home tonight.

Listen pal, I have TCAS on the plane and I've had several "near misses" This stuff does and will happen. And you seem to have a false sence of security if you think by looking outside it wont happen to you.

 

[avbug]

You brush death? That sounds very dramatic. What's that like, anyway? What do you brush it with? Would that be the toothbrush of death, or the hairbrush of death? Does death reciprocate?

I'd sue for necrological harassment.

 

[rumpletumbler]

Avbug your are a very silly boy!

In other news I was doing turns around a point not long ago and after a few times around noticed a shadow that wasn't mine but was close to co altitude and they also appeared to be doing turns around a point. I steepened the turn up quite a bit and make two 360's with two of us looking for this a/c and neither of us ever saw them and so we left that area. We were both looking for traffic during the manuver and he had to be pretty close and that it was a clear day and we never saw him says to me that it can happen even if your looking. Yes we did clearing turns before.

RT

 

[ShawnC]

Re: Re: Mid Air Collision here in FL

Listen pal, I have TCAS on the plane and I've had several "near misses" This stuff does and will happen. And you seem to have a false sence of security if you think by looking outside it wont happen to you.

TCAS is a rare thing in the training enviroment, you only have one way to look for traffic your eyes. Also with a TCAS, isn't the RA set to 800 ft, sheesh I would get them all the time here in Florida then, there is traffic everywhere.