Mesaba's race to the Bottom

[schmitty340]

The CSA's payrate may go down 7%, but that letter cleary states they are looking for a total cost reduction of 19.4%. so with the increases in medical plan cost, less hours worked, or no over time (these are just examples of things they will do) and anything else they can impose on those people, the proposal will equal 19.4% in less pay and/or benefits ( PAY CUTS ) . I am sorry I rounded up to 20%. I will admit I got a little carried away.


"People who shouldn't be taking the hit will be. ALPA is on the creditors committee, Wychor needs to make sure the pain is felt all the way to jinglepants himself"

NOBODY SHOULD BE TAKING A HIT (except the SLT of course)>>the reason this company is BK, is becuase NWA is not paying us. How is 20% from all the employees going to change that. we all could work for nothing and we will still be BK if we continue to provide our services and not get paid. WTFO

 

[xjhawk]

Regional MEC's need to come together

Why does not the MEC's of all the Alpa regional airlines come together and set a liveable payscale? This would stop the skid to the bottom. one or two MEC reps from each regional airline, a weekend confernce, and a scale that will get a minimum standard set, with pay raises etc........i suppose those of you who want to continue the fair market approach we have not will laugh at my idea!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

No XJ hawk, the regionals need to join the mainline. This is the way to stop the slide. Once a regional pilot hits the mainline, he will no longer accept low wages.

 

[smokey999]

OK, I'll join mainline. Where do I sign up?

 

[ReverseSensing]

...the Company’s new businessplan compels us to modify all costs in order to ensure a successful future. Again, please know the changes are based on the most reliable financial and business planning information available – and all of us will bear our share of the burden.

I'm sick and tired of these corporate pukes hawking their "businessplans" as some sort of divinely inspired gospel, instead of the latest steamy plopper they pulled out of their asses.

As if there is any fawking thing as "reliable financial and business planning information" for the pax airline industry right now.

Bunch of Junior Business College goobers. Go run a Chik-Fil-A franchise at the mall.

 

[MesabaDriver]

How about the Section F in the New wish list. I hear the scope protection in the contract with Big Scare is also mentioned in the new list of demands to be revamped. Am I reading that right?

 

[fly4ever]

"Once a regional pilot hits the mainline, he will no longer accept low wages."


YourPilotFriend,

That is one of the biggest piles I've seen in a while. Explain why NWA pilots have accepted their second round of cuts in less than a year. Explain why CAL pilots start out at 29.97 for first year FO. Explain why UAL pilots accepted multiple cuts to their wage and benefits since their bankruptcy. Explain why USAir pilots accepted not only cut wages and benefits but allowed their management to form an alter-ego airline with wages below some regionals.

Low compensation packages have been accepted many times by mainline pilot groups. Sometimes in a true effort to help the company but more often because they were looking out for themselves just as we are forced to do at the regional level. You should be taking your arguments to ALPA National and asking Woerthless why he hasn't shown the leadership needed to help "Brand Bargaining" succeed. We had that promise crammed down our throat at Mesaba just to see mainline NW pilots throw it out the window last year when they had the opportunity to take a step in that direction (all signed off by Woerthless).

Mesaba management, i.e. Northwest management, is directing this little drama and we are the pawns. They have underestimated us this time. We are fed up with the games they are playing with our lives. We don't have the level of pay and benefits that allow concessions like you do at mainline. Therefore, we have nothing to lose. Why worry about keeping a job at all costs when it would mean poverty to stay. If they use 1113c on us and the judge allows it, we will have no choice but to walk off the job. We can't survive on what they have proposed. Whereas mainline pilots that have been getting the higher pay and better benefits are willing to accept lower pay to save their jobs.

Why don't you preach to your own pilot group.

BTW, we can't just "join" the mainline. You had a chance years ago to have a one list and missed the opportunity. Do you really think your bosses will allow one list to exist?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I do preach to my own pilot group and they listen, thats why we are working on keeping NWA flying in house. In fact, they are willing to murder-suicide over the issue. We know NewCo will exist because it already does exist. What is not known is whether it is XJ/9E/Champion. One of these pilot groups is going to get screwed plain and simple. In the future at that company, you will be faced with 2 options: 1. join the mainline and take a furlough 2. not join the mainline and hit the street.

You can walk out of XJ, and the second you do that, it becomes NewCo without you. MAIR has so much cash on hand from you guys, they could start up a new airline overnight. So how do you protect your job? Start telling your MEC you want to side with mainline pilots. You want to fly 70 a/c as an NWA pilot; bring back the flow through program. This time NWA pilots will listen to you because they know you are coming for their jobs. They blew you off in the past, but things were different then, you have them by the balls now, but they won't admit that.

I know about your proposed contract, and it's a lie. They know fair well you guys aren't going to work at that pay rate. So you know what they are going to do, "Hey guys I know your pay sucks, but how about flying NewCo a/c at say $60,000 a year as a captain". That will look mighty good to someone who just had their pay cut to $45000. This tactic has been used since the beginning of time and you guys are going to fall for it again. Soon as you agree to it, you will hit the streets and NWA pilots will take your places per the scope agreement. Management will even tell you that they are getting out of the scope contract and that you guys wil fly those airplanes, they will lie to you.

Finally, the "bosses" are not going to like it, but thats what they are going to get. Otherwise, we walk out and they are left with nothing.

 

[fly4ever]

You didn't explain why your group has already accepted lower pay and worse work rules. You talk big but with no substance. There never was a flow through with NWA and NWA management will not allow it so you better start looking for another job just like I am. We'll see who falls for management's lies. Not me.

BTW, your scope seems to already have cracks in it if NWA is "shopping" around for bidders on the 76 seaters or is that a big lie too. Good luck to all of us.

 

[TinGoose1]

Regional feeders need to break away and form their own union. There will never be equality within ALPA between mainline and feeders. One benifits, and the other loses. The simple fact is that the industry is turning over, and the regionals are going to fly bigger aircraft. The only battle either group will win is the whipsaw, and that is a lateral battle. Majors need be ALPA and the regionals need to create their own union. Single lists will not work with thousands on furlough. Even if we staple you guys today, it wouldn't benefit anyone on your property. It would be a decade before any real gains were felt from this kind of arrangement. At this point in the game there really isn't a good fix, only damage control.

 

[merlindrvr88]

What Rep!?

[ great union representation.

What representation? Alpa has helped nobody. Give me 1 and I mean 1 positive thing ALPA has done since 9/11. AlpO plays the regionals against the majors. I wish you guys the best, but forget the union, they help noone but themselves. Look how long the MEC Chairmans stay in their positions. They don't want to go back to the life they are negotiating for, they know it sucks. There should be term limits of 1 year in place, and you guys might get some good representation. Good luck, stay strong.

 

[CptMurf]

Hey PilotFriend,
XJ pilots where inches away from walking to get this current (medocre) contract, they will D$%M sure walk if this S%^TTY proposal is imposed.
Since the legallity of a strike after section 1113(c) has never been challenged or ruled on, the REAL question is whether your unions will honor our struck work or walk over them like AMFA.

 

[CptMurf]

One of these pilot groups is going to get screwed plain and simple. In the future at that company, you will be faced with 2 options: 1. join the mainline and take a furlough 2. not join the mainline and hit the street.

I know about your proposed contract, and it's a lie. They know fair well you guys aren't going to work at that pay rate. So you know what they are going to do, "Hey guys I know your pay sucks, but how about flying NewCo a/c at say $60,000 a year as a captain". That will look mighty good to someone who just had their pay cut to $45000.

Interesting how you threaten us on one hand, then worry about us on the other.....

My crystal ball has another theory, NWA pilots allow NewCo (filled with NWA/XJ/9E/Champion pilots) and accept flowthrough with only NewCo pilots. XJ tries to break XJ scope (and maybe does through 1113) with this terrible proposal. BigSky becomes NewCo, Steenland and Foret step back on MAIR board and the "Polahd Good Ole Boys Club" keep on making their money.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

No our union will not walk if you walk. We are trying to end the regionals, as we see it there are two ways to go about this; save our jobs or die. In turn, you save our jobs and we save your future job. Maybe you specifically don't want to move up , but there are a hell of a lot of guys that work for you that do. We are protecting ourselves and them by default.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Interesting how you threaten us on one hand, then worry about us on the other.....

My crystal ball has another theory, NWA pilots allow NewCo (filled with NWA/XJ/9E/Champion pilots) and accept flowthrough with only NewCo pilots. XJ tries to break XJ scope (and maybe does through 1113) with this terrible proposal. BigSky becomes NewCo, Steenland and Foret step back on MAIR board and the "Polahd Good Ole Boys Club" keep on making their money.

The proposal is, if you step into a jet outside of the scope agreement, you become a NWA pilot or you will flow up to a NWA pilot. Management, is not going to like this, however, thats what they are going to get. Once you step foot into one of those 76 seat crj's you will get in line for the 747. Trust me, it's a good deal because NWA pilots on furlough are not going to go back until they can hold a mainline spot. Only a few who are currently without any other options will flow back, last time i checked it was about 25 or so. Wait and see what happens in a few weeks with the furloughs at NWA anyway. There might be an announcement.