Mesaba's actions against furloughed pilots

[xjhawk]

in short, mesaba is making furoughed pilots with under one year to pay for their training. In the past, they were not concerned with what furloughed pilots did, whether they left or stayed. Why are they different now? I feel that the indication means that they will be shortly calling these pilots back, but they do not care how they will survive until they are called back. This is so irrisponsible and something needs to be done about these immoral business practices.

Hey, and about the proposed (not official yet) concessions! I say that if they even ask for .01 we walk and show some balls. Who cares if its not legal! This bankruptcy is fabricated by NWA and our executives, why does not ALPA do something about this ? unite all the pilot groups together, (now its a farce) How can these airlines be smarter than us? they are using the government to do their bidding? SOme former lawyer who was oon the payroll of the airlines who is now a judge is going to make me take a pay cut to below what i make now and its already at an industry low? Any ideas people? social revolution against industry hahahahahahahahah

 

[PCL_128]

Simply don't pay the training contract. It's certainly not legal for the company to force you to pay since they are the ones putting you out of work. It's merely an intimidation tactic. Don't let them scare you.

 

[Max Powers]

I don't think the company is doing to be nice and keep people from leaving. Although I hope our furlough bros and sis' will be back soon.

Its simply a negotiating tactic.

 

[Nancy Pryor]

.....

 

[Flapjack]

Ya know, years ago (like 1997-1998) I seem to recall hearing that Mesaba tried to make some people pay their training contracts. Those pilots left on their own for other airlines, no furlough involved, and Mesaba couldn't make those training contracts stick.

If you are a 1st year pilot and they want you to pay, just ignore them. Don't tell them where to go, even though it's tempting. Just "ignore". By law, they can't say anything about it to a future employer, so don't worry about being blacklisted or anything like that, either.

The absolute worst scenario is 1-2 years from now you go to court and they make you pay the original amount. And I don't think even that would happen.

Good luck!

 

[Doug Parker]

.

Screw those idiots - if they furloughed you, they can't make you pay your contract.

Most of those BS employment contracts are null and void when any of the terms of your employment change (ie work rules, pay, etc - I think being furloughed is definately a change in terms of your employment).

Just do like Flapjack says and ignore them - get an attorney if you have to - heck, even call ALPA and see if they might be able to help you.

If these POS airlines and other companies were worth a sh!t, they wouldn't have to have a contract to begin with, but that definately ain't - so they force their employees into indentured servitude.

Good Luck and P!$$ on training contracts (and PFT too) !!!



.

 

[platinumclub]

Actually, I'd like to see the source for this. Some of us that are to be furloughed checked to see if we could get out early (before the furlough) and both HR and the CP's said we were stuck until that date, but they said we can do whatever after that day. I'd like to see it hold up in court when they kick you off the job and then want you to pay the money back, they would be hard pressed to get the money even if you leave now. My buddy left Lakes early and just ignored them, and hasn't heard a thing for over a year. Just the info I've obtained.

~plat

 

[capt. megadeth]

So the new hires at Mesaba signed a training contract? What does it say in reference to leaving? I can't see how they could let you go (temporarily or permanently) and make you pay. It's not like it was the new hires choice to leave.

 

[N590MA]

If you are on the furlough list, and you secure a job offer from another airline, I would leave this place in a heartbeat. If they try to make the contract stick, do what the other posts say and ignore it. Don't tell them where to shove or say anything else, just don't respond or tell them to contact the mec lawyers. In no way, shape or form would I turn down another opportunity for this psuedo airline.

I think the MEC even put out a e-mail that stated that they think enforcing the contract is no right and that expecting to be reimbursed for the lodging cost is illegal.

FOOK-UM they are forcing you on the street your not leaving by choice.

 

[screwed_again]

Everyone has it wrong. They are not furloughing pilots and in turn making them pay for the training they received. The deal is: A pilot sees his name on the Jan 10th furlough list and has another job which starts on Jan 1. Mgmt's position is they would be "quitting" their job at Mesaba to take on another job that begins before the official furlough date. Therefore, their poistion is the training contract would apply.

 

[FedEx1]

SOME training contracts ARE legal. Some are not. It depends on the writing. However, I would seriously doubt that you are obligated to pay if you were furloughed. If you left voluntarily, even because you were going to be furloughed, then you might be on the hook.

However...

Training contracts in general: Many companies won't go after you at all. Some will, with some threats. And some will give your "bill" to a third party to try to get payment. Keep in mind, they can't report you to a credit bureau unless they have sued you in court and you don't pay.

Many companies, or the third party, will take a payment plan. They will also possibly take a partial payment and have that be the end. If they agree to this, be sure to get in in writing before you write out the check. There is some special legal wording that needs to be in writing before everyone signs (make sure they sign first), so check with an attorney.

It would be very easy to justify paying less than the amount they want- you might be able to prove it didn't cost them that amount, or that you did work for x many months and gave back to the company. Or, say in the case that they typed you in their aircraft, offer the street value of someone walking up and getting that same type at Flight Safety or something. The point is, it is negociable.

Best thing to do is to call an attorney and get some real legal advice. This is a small industry- you don't want to leave on bad standing, you don't want your old company calling your new one and telling them you owe $$, and you never know where those people will end up in the future- maybe at the airline you are trying to get on at.

 

[N590MA]

I believe it is both the future furloughees and the people that were furloughed while in new hire ground, that the company is trying to keep on the hook for the cost.

Either way, I say don't pass up a better oppurtunity and make them come after you for the money. As screwed up as our management is I doubt they would ever do anything more than send a threatening letter.

 

[W&BWiz]

Funny thing is, we are talking about FO's. You can't get blood from a turnip.

 

[propjob27]

The deal is: A pilot sees his name on the Jan 10th furlough list and has another job which starts on Jan 1. Mgmt's position is they would be "quitting" their job at Mesaba to take on another job that begins before the official furlough date.

If this is correct, then you could avoid the issue by not quitting until Jan 10th.

Still, even if screwed_again has it right, that's still shi t-bag treatment of employees by management.

Mesaba should take a lesson from ATA when it comes to training contracts and a bankrupt airline. ATA had the decency and respect of waving all training contracts the day the company declared chapter 11. ATA's statement to us was, 'we didn't fulfill our end of the bargin by providing you with stable employment, so you don't have to honor the training contract.' So it didn't matter if you furloughed or going to be furloughed. They said go out there and get jobs and we were not responsible for the training contract since the company couldn't run a successful airline.

I hope no FOs, even those who quit prior to their furlough date, even think about paying one penny to Mesaba.

 

[5ontheglide]

I am inclined to believe screwedagain... although I havn't heard the official word yet. However, if for some reason I were furloughed (mandatory), and I was actually sued by XJ - I believe that would be enough for me to take the gloves off and counter sue for my salary until my year was up. The training contract not only states my responsibility to the company, but also rather implicitly their agreement to provide employment based upon agreed terms. That's just my opinion.

 

[TinGoose1]

Write a letter on these boards to your management. Start a new thread with a direct header. I would bet money that your management reads these boards.

-TG

 

[Ralgha]

Write a letter on these boards to your management. Start a new thread with a direct header. I would bet money that your management reads these boards.

-TG

Like management cares what a bunch of bitter pilots post on an anonymous internet forum that gets negligible traffic from anyone outside the industry.

If you want your letter to have any chance at any kind of effect, then you need to get it in a widespread newspaper.

 

[Dufus1]

Hey Ralgha, did you hear about the fake NWA news release posted on here that prompted the top buffoon at Mesaba to call NWA and also sent a letter to emplyees regarding it?

 

[Ralgha]

Did you hear that United is replacing all 737s, 757s, and 767s with 787s and first year FO pay will be $100 per duty hour?

Actually that message was copied to a company forum, which is probably where management saw it and started to care.