Mesaba Saab W/B Question

dashtrash

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It's that time of year again. I'll be trying to J/S on Mesaba up to HIB. How many people can the Saab A model hold now that the FAA has uped the weights? Thanks to all XJ pilots that have made it happen for me in the past.
 

AutoCars Armed

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It is all going to depend on the fuel. I don't work at Messaba but have experience with the A models.

AVG BOW 18500
MTOW 28000
MZFW 25700
MLDG 27200

Max Bags 1200
30 pax + ACM = 5890

18500 + 5890 + 1200 = 25590

25590-28000 = 2410 left for fuel.
That is about enough fuel for 350-400nm and a 800lbs reserve and no ALT/MSAP fuel, no Hold fuel, no Tanker.
 

Workin'Stiff

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Hopefully you won't have to worry 'bout it too much longer with the A models. Word on the street is that they'll all be gone by November. The whole three we still have flying.
 

flap operator

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Any XJ saab drivers out there wanna share with us how the new w&b is going?



FO
 

SlapShot

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I can't speak for Mesaba but at S5 we can no longer take 30 passengers and full bags. Granted we could rarely do this prior to the new W&B. But now with the smaller CG envelope, we cannot do it.

I am sure glad the FAA took into account the flight attendant walking up and down the aisle with a fully loaded cart. The autopilot really appreciates it in cruise. (Can you sense the sarcasm?)
 

user-name

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mesaba vs. shuttle weights

AutoCars Armed said:
It is all going to depend on the fuel. I don't work at Messaba but have experience with the A models.

AVG BOW 18500
MTOW 28000
MZFW 25700
MLDG 27200

Max Bags 1200
30 pax + ACM = 5890

18500 + 5890 + 1200 = 25590

25590-28000 = 2410 left for fuel.
That is about enough fuel for 350-400nm and a 800lbs reserve and no ALT/MSAP fuel, no Hold fuel, no Tanker.
I can't speak for Mesaba, but I don't think they use 30lbs per bag or 190 per summer weight pax. Also, I don't think their cargo compartment is limited to 1200 lbs.
It all really depends on the Capt and how willing he is to "massage" the numbers to make it work for you. Good luck!
 

T-handle

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The new Saab W+B program has it's usual first week bugs. It's hit or miss. Sometimes everything is running smoothly, the next day you're waiting 10 minutes for numbers. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes...... When an aircraft is overweight, it's been a mess and I don't know why it's tougher to solve 35 pounds overweight now than just last week.

However I can tell you FOs are much happier nowadays since they don't have to do any W/B calculations. It's like they're sitting there with nothing to do! Kinda like a Captain! :D
 

flap operator

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So now it's like the avro... hit or miss wether or not you get numbers by the end of the rwy. I'd say we have our numbers before we leave the gate, during pushback or on the taxi 99% of the time. That 1% is always when we're light or when the rampies/agents didn't send the counts to dispatch. I think w&b is better now that dispatch crunches the numbers, as opposed to LCL in MSP. NIce to see it working out fo the saab. Something I get to look forward too soon... =)



FO
 

Workin'Stiff

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user-name said:
I can't speak for Mesaba, but I don't think they use 30lbs per bag or 190 per summer weight pax. Also, I don't think their cargo compartment is limited to 1200 lbs.
It all really depends on the Capt and how willing he is to "massage" the numbers to make it work for you. Good luck!
Believe it or not, we are going to be working with 190 lb pax and he's actually pretty close on those numbers. C1 is limited to 1300 lbs in the B models and 800 lbs for C2 in both models. And in addition, we do use 30 lbs for standard bags and 50 lbs for the heavies...
 

fly4ever

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New XJ weights:

Summer: Adults - 184
Children - 76 / under 2 - weight is not considered
XCM - 190

Winter: Adults - 189
Children - 81 / under 2 - same
XCM - same

Bags: Standard - 30 lbs.
Heavies - 60 lbs.

Carry-ons: Have to go in the cargo bins - 20 lbs. (exception - personal
items such as purse, computer etc.)

Other adjustments are made for larger than average groups (i.e. male sports teams) just like before.

Cargo limits - A: C1-925 C2-800 Total - 1725
B: 1125 800 1925
B+: 1300 800 2100

Three A models remaining scheduled to leave by middle of December.
 

ImbracableCrunk

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Double Doh!
 
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ImbracableCrunk

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flap operator said:
Any XJ saab drivers out there wanna share with us how the new w&b is going?



FO
Something like 7 planes blocked out yesterday overweight somehow. Some were over MTOW or ZFW by 400lbs. Guess Mesaba had planes sitting for 3 hours before they could call Linkoping (that's Sweden) and figure out what MX had to do to get the planes going after exceeding limitations.

The crews won't get dinged, but the FAA was probably not too happy.

Now, if you are "WT critical" or "CG critical," as informed by none other than the gate agent, you can't release the brakes and start the clock until you get final numbers. That can take up to 15 minutes. Start the engines, but no pay. Nice.

The FO's aren't as busy during the start and push, but they are more busy during taxi. That is not good.

Flight attendents aren't required to do pax counts anymore for us, but the stations have so far been good about giving us spils to compare to the final numbers.

I'd say it's going just ok.
 

T-handle

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ImbracableCrunk said:
I'd say it's going just ok.
"ok" at the very best. Look at the performance numbers at mymesaba.com. All red. Looks like December 04 performance numbers :eek: Remember Christmas week in MSP??? :rolleyes:

Ask the gate agents and rampers what they think of this new procedure. We have managers and chief pilots at the gates itching their heads why airplanes are pushing back overweight..... fun times @ MeSAaBaaaaaaaaa :D
 
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