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Mesaba Radio Request

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samfu_1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Posts
66
I am probably hearing things... but this past Wednesday, I was passing south of Memphis when I heard Mesaba "4...7" (something, I couldn't remmber) "request celestial navigation." - To which Memphis center immediately replied, Mesaba 4..7, request approved. - - - ?? WHAT? - Anyways, I am probably just hard of hearing, but that's what I heard, and I can't remmber the last time I pulled out my, er, sextant or ocular - whatever you call it to get a fix on the North Star..
- Besides calling me crazy, explain what you think that was.
 
That's what I thought...
but I had to say it, this probably belongs in "funniest things you've heard on the radio."
 
Maybe a military filght. The old Air Force 737-200' had a small bubble on top so the NAV students could practice. Maybe you got the call signs mixed up, or maybe you were hearing things...
 
Cel Nav clearances are given to the T-43s(737s) out of Randolph. The callsign for the navigator students is Gator XX. They don't actually shoot celestial anymore, but the clearance allows them a wider corridor(I think its 15 miles either side of centerline) to practice in.
 
He was probably being sarcastic because the saabs almost do use celestial navigation....vor to vor...
 
ReportCanoa said:
Maybe a military filght. The old Air Force 737-200' had a small bubble on top so the NAV students could practice. Maybe you got the call signs mixed up, or maybe you were hearing things...
KC135s have them too. They are no longer used, but are handy for clearing smoke/fumes from the cockpit. Some guys get bored flying over the pond, hook a hose up to it at altitude and vacuum out the airplane. We have very few navs left, and I don't even think celestial navigation is part of their training anymore. Maybe the C130 guys still use that port.... not sure.
 
They probably had the field in sight and were well over 35 miles from it, so were unable to get a visual clerance. This would allow them to visually proceed to the field from a much greater distance. Althought I have neaver heard of it being done, it is quite creative.
 
being that mem is the home center for mesaba i bet it was a joke refering to the sabs lack of rnav/vnav/lnav of any nav. funny crap!
 
jws717 said:
being that mem is the home center for mesaba

Bite your tongue! Mecca - I mean Minneapolis is home center for Mesaba. Melvis is a domicile/hub.
 
MarineGrunt said:
KC135s have them too. They are no longer used, but are handy for clearing smoke/fumes from the cockpit. Some guys get bored flying over the pond, hook a hose up to it at altitude and vacuum out the airplane. We have very few navs left, and I don't even think celestial navigation is part of their training anymore. Maybe the C130 guys still use that port.... not sure.

I had an old neighbor that used to fly for Pan Am back in the day... Apparently the airline had a rash of damage to the tail- dents and dings and such on the leading edge of the vertical stab, that mx and managment couldn't figure out what was causing it...

Until finally a plane came back with a glass coke bottle embedded in the tail. Turns out that crews were using the nav "hole" as a trash can, and debris was flying back and hitting the tail. :D
 
For those who thought that I got the callsign on this guy wrong, I re-played it 5 times that night with a radio reply function that is on this plane. It was definitely Mesaba.
 
samfu_1 said:
For those who thought that I got the callsign on this guy wrong, I re-played it 5 times that night with a radio reply function that is on this plane. It was definitely Mesaba.

If you played it back 5 time that night, how come you needed to ask? and why didn't you know the flight number and things like that? It would seem if you played it back 5 times you would be confident in exactly what you heard.
 
Mesaba doesn't use 4000 series flight numbers.....

Pinnacle uses 2800, 2900, 3700, 4700, 57-5900....

Mesaba uses other 2000 and 3000 series flight numbers. Yes... I am that much of a nerd.
 
flyin backwards said:
If you played it back 5 time that night, how come you needed to ask? and why didn't you know the flight number and things like that? It would seem if you played it back 5 times you would be confident in exactly what you heard.

-First of all, it was garbled, couldn't understand it. The only part I could really understand was the callsign, not the instruction.. and I couldn't copy the flight number. Or maybe you hear all your radio calls perfectly and don't understand VHF limitations in the clarity department.
 
you have radio playback?! What type of aircraft?
 
samfu_1 said:
-First of all, it was garbled, couldn't understand it. The only part I could really understand was the callsign, not the instruction.. and I couldn't copy the flight number. Or maybe you hear all your radio calls perfectly and don't understand VHF limitations in the clarity department.

Well good thing you listened 5 times. If the controller heard it enough to acknowledge the transmission, and he only had the luxury of hearing it once, then you, with the luxury of hearing it 5 times must have been able to hear it. Besides if you were in the air then you had better reception than a ground based receiver. Or maybe you don't understand the VHF linitation in the clarity department. Or maybe our 172 doesn't have a very good radio.
 
"Besides if you were in the air then you had better reception than a ground based receiver."

Ummm, let's review here. ARTCC often listens to multiple freqs., spread out over a large area. You ever hear a controller talking to himself? Or have you ever been able to hear the controller wayyy better than another aircraft? Or have you ever heard an aircraft calling ATC, but ATC couldn't hear the aircraft?

If you haven't, then you don't have very much flight experience (172 flyer). It's plausible that samfu didn't hear the transmission as well as the controller. And sometimes it's just hard to hear transmissions when your iPod is too loud in your headset. Let up, 'cuz it's not the point of the thread anyway.

As for the mystery of celestial nav, Mesaba Saabs have a GPS/FMS that the crews are not supposed to use, but sometimes in life there are scofflaws. ATC knows that some crews can pop the CB back in and navigate w/GPS - we, er, I mean, those crews referred to it as (wink wink) "celestial nav".

If that's not the ticket, then it was the crew asking for the heading they always get for a particular airport. Mesaba only flies to a few airports down there, and Mesaba crews and controllers have the headings from Memphis well memorized. So much so that "How about 220 for Greenville" can become too wordy and boring, and I can see someone saying "How about celestial nav tonight?". ATC just kinda lets you go in a direction for a while until you pick up the signal. It's really advanced navigation down South. This ain't Canada, where they step to you right away if you go 1/32 of a dot off course over the swamps of lower Ontario.

In any event, I don't think a Saab Driver had a sextant pointed at the sky. He'd get his a$$ kicked. "Celestial Nav" was probably just a non-incriminating over-the-air euphemism for direct navigation by whatever means available. It's casual.

Peace
 
Flying Illini said:
you have radio playback?! What type of aircraft?

It was a Cessna 182 equipped with the Garmin 1000 avionics. I agree with Flapjack on the "southern understanding" of what the nav request was. It was exactly that... a casual request. If you have flown a route several times, it is just one of those things. "flying backwards" is LOSING the point of this thread by trying to invalidate what I heard by a variety of poorly supported reasons. Relax, I heard what I heard and I'm not deaf yet, (maybe in another 20 yrs) I'm just polling guys to see if there is any background on that. YES, I know that a Mesaba driver hasn't got his sextant out and is looking for Polaris (try to understand facetiousness) and also thanks for the background from you guys who have given good answers. I'm begining to think that I'm not that crazy.
 
Still Cell Navin'

The C130 Navigators are not required to be cell nav qualified as the Mighty C130 has GPS/INS/DOP solution. It's slightly better than shooting stars for navigation. However, most of my former Navs still were very good at navigating by cell and most like to remain current and qualified. The good Navs could get within about 1-2 miles when crossing the pond. We routinely did Cell Nav legs for Nav practice. They even could give you a PAR down to non-precision minimums.

Cheers!
 
Flapjack said:
"As for the mystery of celestial nav, Mesaba Saabs have a GPS/FMS that the crews are not supposed to use, but sometimes in life there are scofflaws. ATC knows that some crews can pop the CB back in and navigate w/GPS - we, er, I mean, those crews referred to it as (wink wink) "celestial nav".

Actually, maintance has "popped" all the internal breakers so even if we try to pop the collar on the fms breaker it still won't work. Not that I have ever tried it or anything.

We don't have ANY 4000 flight numbers. Even if we are repositioning or ferrying an airplane its never a 4000 number. My sarcasm towards samfu was that in his first post he said he couldn't remember what was said, but then says he listened to if 5 times.

And yes, if he heard the transmission and atc heard the transmission then at least he and the mesaba flight were on the same freq.
 

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