Mesaba & Pinnacle to fight it out!!??

[flyin backwards]

I too have a second income, it's called my wife.

 

[RP170]

200k what kind of business do you have

Helps JO with his illegal insider stock trading.

 

[blackbox]

I understand what doofus1 is saying. Name any one of your friends or family members that have a profession (i.e. doctor, lawyer, teacher, accountant, real estate agent, etc....) and has to have a second income? NONE! So why should we have to? But unfortunately this industry is so unstable. Wanting to become a pilot is the worst thing you can wish on anyone, because u like the job, but everything that comes along with it sucks. So you cant enjoy your career.

I am trying to make some extra money on the side aswell. THough I shouldnt have to because I am a professional. like any other 9-5 guy in a monkey suit.

 

[Lear70]

Guys, guys... Read a little deeper and think about it for a second.

He's not advocating having a second job to be able to live... he's advocating having a 2nd job so that he doesn't feel PRESSURED INTO ACCEPTING A SUBSTANDARD CONTRACT!

If all of us had a way to make a living elsewhere and the company tried to ram a bad contract down our throats, how many MORE of us would be willing to walk?

I'm in the same boat, I've helped my aunt sell real estate... it's not what I want to do for a living but it DOES make me about 3,000 or so every time I sell a house (about once a month helping her part-time). Full-time I could probably clear 9k to 10k a month, and it makes a great back-up for when I vote NO on a shitty contract.

I also rebuild and sell 3000gt / stealth engines on eBay. Costs me about $1,000 to buy a good used block and parts and I can sell it for about $1,500 to $1,700 and it takes 2 full days to build one. Doing that 4 days a week I could clear 4k a month... about what I'd make on reserve at this company and again, ANOTHER WAY TO VOTE DOWN A CONTRACT BECAUSE I HAVE A BACKUP PLAN!

That's all he's saying... be PREPARED to vote no and have a way to support yourself and family when you do it.

 

[Dufus1]

Mr. Management: "Give them this crappy contract. They'll take it. They love to fly and most of them have other incomes anyway. They can work here as a hobby."

That is their mentality. Whether they actually think that, who knows. I hesitate giving them that much credit. However, those I have talked with are not the ones that have the 2nd income so they can vote down a crappy contract. They have the second job because they have resigned themselves to the fact that a decent wage cannot be earned flying. If you really want to make a point, don't work for the crappy wages in the first place.

Let me pose a serious question. How much is enough?

I know a couple present and retired 747 captains who have made $250K plus and think they need more. My expectations are slightly lower. I really don't need 2 houses, 6 cars, the boat, motorcycles, etc. Let my wife stay home with the kids and let me have enough to put away for retirement/kids school and I'll be fine. Last time I checked that does not require $250K. Although I would not turn that down.

Don't get me wrong. $17K a year for an FO or $40K a year for an "experienced captain" is a joke.

 

[Rossa]

Dufus,

Stop whining!
These guys are saying that the reality is we should have another form of income, whether it's your spouse or another job.
You sound like a baby! In a perfect world we would get compensated fairly, have our cake and eat it! Well, that's just not the case at the minute! We're all in the same boat, so suck it up!

 

[Lear70]

Dufus,

Stop whining!
These guys are saying that the reality is we should have another form of income, whether it's your spouse or another job.

No, we're not. Where the fu*k did you get that?

Idiot.

You sound like a baby! In a perfect world we would get compensated fairly, have our cake and eat it! Well, that's just not the case at the minute! We're all in the same boat, so suck it up!

You're missing the point. The POINT is that, if we DO have other sources of income, we'll be able to hold our ground so that we CAN be fairly compensated.

Have our cake and eat it, too? What the fu*k good does it do to have a piece of cake and not be able to eat it.

Dumbest fu*king saying I've ever heard.

 

[screwed_again]

I am a 2nd year FO on the 1900 at Air Midwest, making $22.00 an hour, and I realize that its one of least respected airlines. Fortunetly, I manage to get 14 days off a month and a 64 hour line that allows me plenty of time to run my online real estate business, clearing over 200K a year.

Yeah, sure, $200K/year with an "online real estate business." Sounds like you're trying lure people into some pyramid scheme. Did you get started placing "tiny little classified ads" in newspapers across the country from your tiny one-bedroom apartment? Lets see a W-2.

 

[Rossa]

Lear,

Poor choice of words on my part. By saying "have our cake......" I was merely saying that we would be better equipped to stand strong and get better contracts.
The REALITY of our position TODAY, is that mngt has the upper hand (before you go off on a rant, THEY DO!!). What I understood from the other Pilots, was that if we have another source of income, regardless of the source, that we can negotiate better, fairer compensation. NOT that we can have a job where we don't care about the income because we have another source, and therefor fly for free!
Maybe you shouldn't shoot from the hip next time! Maybe you should read what I ACTUALLY said before calling me an Idiot!
In a perfect world Dufus would be 100% correct in what he said, but we aren't there yet - everyone knows that, so he should make contingency plans, just like the other guys said. He doesn't need to earn 200K/year from his side gig, just enough to take the sting out of what mngt is doing to us, so he can live to fight back!!
If I snap back unfairly, I apologize in advance.

 

[MesabaDriver]

This is the best thing for the QOL of a airline pilot. Every single pilot should seek additional income from other sources, and not rely soley on a flying job. There are a million and one ways to make money, and anybody who thinks they can't, is plain lazy. I am a 2nd year FO on the 1900 at Air Midwest, making $22.00 an hour, and I realize that its one of least respected airlines. Fortunetly, I manage to get 14 days off a month and a 64 hour line that allows me plenty of time to run my online real estate business, clearing over 200K a year. When contract talks come around in 2007, I am one MAG pilot that wont vote on anything but the best regional rates, and I could give a rats a$$ if MAG is gone and I lose my job, because I know I did the best thing for the industry, and have a backup plan. In my opinion, if this was the feeling of a majority of pilots, we all would'nt be taking pay concessions, etc. SO GO MAKE ADDITIONAL INCOME!! You can do it from a laptop on reserve or whatever. In my opinion, once we get some leverage, and industry wide unity, its a certainty to see the jobs, and pay of the good ol days.



F***ing brutal. I get about 15 plus days off at Mesaba after 1.5 yrs and make appx 29 an hr. Im sorry but I have better things to do on my days off than work. I realize you may not have had alot of options i assume that why you are under the Mesa banner, but when you guys allowed Freedom to run you all into a horrible contract and then you allowed the lists to be intergrated you lost all rights to brag or even speak about fair contracts. Airlines like Mesa, GJ and Freedom are the reason that we are in these positions in the first place.

 

[Dufus1]

I don't believe I was whining. I believe I am saying to you pukes who say we should all work on our days off to make a decent living that you can kiss my a@$. You need to quit whining to me about how you can't make a living at the airlines. Quit your frickin flyin job and quit complaining.

 

[DeltaLima21]

Yeah, sure, $200K/year with an "online real estate business." Sounds like you're trying lure people into some pyramid scheme. Did you get started placing "tiny little classified ads" in newspapers across the country from your tiny one-bedroom apartment? Lets see a W-2.

Want your proof?? go to ebay, look under the screen name deltalima31 for a sales history. Or perhaps look into some of my feedback from past sales. a pyramid scheme or late night infomercial is the last thing I base my business on.

 

[DeltaLima21]

Guys, guys... Read a little deeper and think about it for a second.

He's not advocating having a second job to be able to live... he's advocating having a 2nd job so that he doesn't feel PRESSURED INTO ACCEPTING A SUBSTANDARD CONTRACT!

If all of us had a way to make a living elsewhere and the company tried to ram a bad contract down our throats, how many MORE of us would be willing to walk?

I'm in the same boat, I've helped my aunt sell real estate... it's not what I want to do for a living but it DOES make me about 3,000 or so every time I sell a house (about once a month helping her part-time). Full-time I could probably clear 9k to 10k a month, and it makes a great back-up for when I vote NO on a shootty contract.

I also rebuild and sell 3000gt / stealth engines on eBay. Costs me about $1,000 to buy a good used block and parts and I can sell it for about $1,500 to $1,700 and it takes 2 full days to build one. Doing that 4 days a week I could clear 4k a month... about what I'd make on reserve at this company and again, ANOTHER WAY TO VOTE DOWN A CONTRACT BECAUSE I HAVE A BACKUP PLAN!

That's all he's saying... be PREPARED to vote no and have a way to support yourself and family when you do it.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

 

[DeltaLima21]

F***ing brutal. I get about 15 plus days off at Mesaba after 1.5 yrs and make appx 29 an hr. Im sorry but I have better things to do on my days off than work. I realize you may not have had alot of options i assume that why you are under the Mesa banner, but when you guys allowed Freedom to run you all into a horrible contract and then you allowed the lists to be intergrated you lost all rights to brag or even speak about fair contracts. Airlines like Mesa, GJ and Freedom are the reason that we are in these positions in the first place.[/quote]

Please see where I posted that I am a 2nd year FO, I wasnt here when Freedom was born. However If I was, there is little that I could have done as an individual to stop it, hence the reason for everyone having additional income to stand your ground on contract talks and improve QOL. Management certainly isnt going to do it based on the graciousness of their hearts.

 

[DeltaLima21]

I too have a second income, it's called my wife.

Sugar mamas are always nice.

 

[MesabaDriver]

DeltaLima, you should have had the sense to stay away from them if you say you werent there until afterwards. In my eyes thats even worse, But you gotta do what ya gotta do, I guess. I see Mankato Alumni are still out there. But in my instance i didnt spend 4 years in school and countless time in a c150 to have a partime job on the side to make ends meet. Ive got a partime job, Mesaba.

 

[DeltaLima21]

DeltaLima, you should have had the sense to stay away from them if you say you werent there until afterwards. In my eyes thats even worse, But you gotta do what ya gotta do, I guess. I see Mankato Alumni are still out there. But in my instance i didnt spend 4 years in school and countless time in a c150 to have a partime job on the side to make ends meet. Ive got a partime job, Mesaba.

From an industry standpoint, those not working for MAG should be happy about my feelings toward signing a industry leading contract. The more people that come to MAG with any backbone could/would have an effect on the entire industry. If anything, having finnacial freeedom allows me to vote no on substandard contracts. I hope there is a day where the profession is respected and compensated with what it once was. This is one way to work towards that.

Mankato was a great place to learn to fly. But im glad I took the business classes while I was there.

 

[Monster Buck]

I want a million a day and 29 days of a month. After that I may consider not asking for more. Mesaba and 9E pilots will stand their ground and demand good contracts. NWA more than ever and as always will not give their business to anyone that they don't control. #2 they will not give it all to one of us and loose controlled whipsaws. Whipsawing people that they "control". As much as many of us want to believe we may venture from the nest on our own, it won't happen. Past attempts have been for show and were doomed from the start and always will be. NWA dows not operate like United. There are a hands on management. The people that keep posting things like here comes mesa or shutttle or other crap hole operations, just like that they keep taking work from the others that didn't cave like they did. As always please see forest through the trees, times change , I know, but look at 9E and Mesaba for the last decade and learn from that past. Don't let this crap ruin your holiday season, our dollar here dollar there contract differences won't change NWA plan from the begining. Demand the world and smile every day, don't worry, giving in to concessions will only lessen your pay for the hours you will work anyway. HAPPY HOLIDAY'S EVERYONE.

 

[Lear70]

Poor choice of words on my part.

Agreed.

The REALITY of our position TODAY, is that mngt has the upper hand (before you go off on a rant, THEY DO!!).

Agreed.

Maybe you shouldn't shoot from the hip next time! Maybe you should read what I ACTUALLY said before calling me an Idiot!

See above. You chose your words poorly and I interpreted them exactly as they were written. If you had ORIGINALLY replied as you did in your 2nd post, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If I snap back unfairly, I apologize in advance.

You didn't... I'm quick to go off on people who tell us to suck it up and quit fighting for more... my bad.

Again, I'm not telling people they NEED to have a side job to "make ends meet", I'm just saying it makes it a LOT easier to vote "No".

 

[Tank Commander]

NWA more than ever and as always will not give their business to anyone that they don't control. #2 they will not give it all to one of us and loose controlled whipsaws.

This is the statement of the day.