Mesaba pilot contract summary

[Metropilot]

Does anybody know how to apply for a Mesaba pilot job? Soon to be jobless Big Sky pilot. I'm sure we will be greeted warmly.

 

[av8or98]

Anything less than 3% per year is no increase. Cost of living is 3%. 26.7% increase for new hire FO's??? Over what period of time? Is it an immediate 26.7% plus 2%, 2%, 4%, 4% or is it 26.7% over the life of the contract (26.7-4, -4, -2, -2, or 14.7%) Retro pay from the day the contract was ammendable? You should accept nothing less.

 

[FatesPawn]

I think I'm going to be sick. That's the best you get? Forget it. Strike. That's insulting. Back in 1997, I stood there while the former MEC chair told LEC106 that, "the best thing we can do for a first officer is give him a quick upgrade..."

What a bunch of crap. quick upgrade. Great. Give me some more Enron stock while you're at it.

This TA sounds like the same thing. Here's your GOOD scope language. Salivate over it. Wait for those CRJ's that are sure to come.... and heck, even if they don't this is just a stepping stone job after all, right? I get a nice phat $3000 retro check that's burnin a hole in my pocket for a new keg-o-rator. Yippee.

The bottom line is that you got a cost of living increase, a crummy 4hr minimum day and an 'unknown' retirement. Plan on that retirement. You aren't going to the show ladies gentlemen. You're AT the show. Now, go forth and act like professional pilots and tell management where to stick their insulting TA.

Q Mesaba Pilots will be the only pilots used to do flying for Mesaba Aviation, Inc. (Mesaba), MAIR Holdings, Inc. (MAIR) or any future subsidiary of MAIR. (MAIR is the parent company for Mesaba.)

This is the only good part about the contract I see

Q Captain pay increases are 5.1% across the board. The Captain payscale tops out at 18 years and pay rates differ by the aircraft type, as delineated by seat ranges.

Q All pilot payscales will increase by 2% for the first two years after signing, and 4% over the last two years.

Nice, this is, what cost of living plus 3 or 4%?

Q Pilots will still be guaranteed 75 hours of pay, regardless of the amount of flying a pilot does. If a pilot flies more than 75 hours, they will be paid for the total amount. (e.g. a pilot actually flies 55 hours in a month, they are paid for 75; a pilot actually flies 85 hours in a month, they are paid for 85)

Careful here... are you guys giving up your "trip" block or better language for a "monthly " block or better language? You already have a monthly block or better deal. It looks like with the new language if you fly 3 hrs extra in the first 2 trips of the month and the last 2 trips are under that 3 hrs, you'll end up with your line guarentee of 85:15 or whatever the original month paid you.

Q For every duty day, a pilot will be guaranteed 4 hours of pay. For example, if a pilot operates two MSP-STC round trip flights over one day, the actual flight credit for the entire day (four flights) is only worth 2:40. If the first round trip operates between 9 am and noon, and the second operates from 5pm to 8pm, the pilot is on-duty for 11 hours. Mesaba will pay 4 hours as a minimum day guarantee.

This is the sort of trickery Spanjers tried to use with us for years. This won't get your more $$ per month. It just makes them schedule you for 4hrs per day. It's a QOL advance for sure, but see my comments above for how your paycheck will be altered with the new guarentee... if that's truly how it is.

Q Retroactive Pay: All pilots will receive a retroactive paycheck within 30 days of the date of signing of the new contract. The amount of the paychecks will vary from $450 to $6300 depending on the amount of flight pay earnings for 2003. First Officers will receive a retro payment of 10% of their pay from 2003, and Captains will receive a retro payment of 5% of their pay from 2003.

Enough to pay for new tires for your airporter.

Retirement

The improvements in retirement greatly increase the amounts of matched contributions made by the Company. Under the new matching and vesting schedule agreed to, a pilot with a 30 year career at Mesaba, deferring 15% of income in addition to the full employer match will retire with 55% of his final average earnings, using common actuarial assumptions.

How much match? Why don't they make it simple? How bout a straight 50% match? Not 6.874982378$ on the first 9.4723672% until you have 3.14159 years with the company and then ...... Sounds like they are just polishing the turd a bit here gentlemen. And the MEC thinks 55% of your FAE is enough to live on??? I should put them in touch with my retired mother. She would go in there with a flamethrower if someone told her that you can live comfortably on 55% of your FAE.

Q Per-Diem: 10 cent increase to $1.45/hr of duty, $.05 increase per year

Do you have direct deposit of your per diem now? Per Diem was forgotten in 1997 when they renegotiated the duration of the contract to bend over for the Avros. I know, I was there. That's why you never had an increase and partly why you never had direct deposit on your per diem... BTW... do you have it yet?

Good luck XJ'ers. I wish you the best, but don't be afraid to turn this crap down, send them back to the table, and risk shutting down the company. It ain't that much to walk away from.

Fate's Pawn

 

[T-Gates]

Mesa showed each and every one of us that a good contract should not be sacrificed for job-protecting scope. You can get scope and more of what you want if you keep trying!

 

[avrodriver]

I'm with everyone else...be careful guys. This contract isn't about getting what you are owed just for today. This is your new contract for the next 4-6 years. Here at AWAC I'm locked into a fricken 8 year deal, if I get stuck in the F/O seat like I did at Mesaba life is going to su.ck (flamers I was on probation when we voted our concessions in so save it). If I was allowed to vote when we were faced with the deal there's no way I would have bit down on the lets vote this in so we can get growth carrot, I had learned already. Look at whats in store for Mesaba even if you do get a decent sized RJ order out of it. They will replace Saabs for the most part......even worse case senario the Avros too ( personally I don't think they are going anywhere though). It's payday guys......for F/O's it's a no brainer He.lllllllllllls No. They fukd us for years and now they want to play catch up and then do it for 6 more. Why the heck would they choose to out of all the payscales to bump the first year pay even above Comair & Whisky........I'd say because for a decent length of this contract they don't plan on having to pay it out. Good luck guys. AD

p.s. TW (MEC) makes me sick for not taking this all the way. How long was everyone waiting to go on strike??? What were the strike vote results??? I guarantee you get told this is the best your going to get, but the next day.....after you are stuck with it, you'll be told "You voted it in, don't look at me" C-YA!

 

[DoinTime]

Retirement

The improvements in retirement greatly increase the amounts of matched contributions made by the Company. Under the new matching and vesting schedule agreed to, a pilot with a 30 year career at Mesaba, deferring 15% of income in addition to the full employer match will retire with 55% of his final average earnings, using common actuarial assumptions.

Your retirement benefits should not be contingent upon your salary deferment. If this were a true benefit you would get the company match regardless of your contribution. Most would be hard pressed to make that 15% contribution under the listed payscales aswell.

 

[avrodriverj85]

Yeah it's hard to believe anything TW (MEC) says when he's telling the press that we got a contract equal with our peers, and the TA I am looking at isn't anywhere near what he's spewing.. maybe it's time for a re-call? That would be just deserts.

 

[JJJ]

The problem is that Wychor promised Comair ASA AWAC level contracts. It was reasonable to believe that a strike would be called if that was not achieved. And now this TA comes out. Wychor should be embarrased for bringing this to the pilot group. And to top it off he has the balls to tell the pilot group that this is a good deal. Do ALPA by laws and rules allow him to be recalled or removed from his position?

Can this TA be ratified by the MEC, or does it have to have membership ratification.

I predict that if this deal goes through, Wychor will be the first new hire at NWA when they start hiring.


Does anyone have the CRJ pay rates?

 

[WileE]

Big Problems?

With the way that negotiations work with the good ol' Railway Act, does the fact that the MEC approved a TA nullify the strike vote? If the pilot group turns down the TA will the whole process start over with the strike clock reset to zero while the MEC goes back to negotiations?

Some of these regulations are so twisted that if the union doesn't follow the steps exactly than they can be acused of not negotiating in good faith and any strike activity would then be illegal. In other words, has the MEC torpedoed the pilot group in approving a TA that, at least from this thread, sounds like its well below the promised target?

 

[DoinTime]

I believe these to be accurate. If not, someone please correct them.

YOS CA FO 40-59 Passenger Jet
0-1 54.33 23.08
1-2 55.97 27.67
2-3 57.66 30.38
3-4 59.38 33.09
4-5 61.15 34.08
5-6 63.00 35.10
6-7 64.89 36.15
7-8 66.83 37.24
8-9 68.83
9-10 70.90
10-11 73.02
11-12 75.21
12-13 77.47
13-14 79.80
14-15 82.19
15-16 84.66
16-17 87.20
17-18 89.81

I remember seeing the payscales Mesaba had for the 50-seat jet in their last contract and these rates can't be but a few percent more. When Pinnacle gets their 5/2004 contract raise they will be 1-2% ABOVE these rates. Kind of peculiar considering all of the bantering I have gotten from Mesaba guys over the years about our low payrates.

 

[JJJ]

These pay rates are LESS than Pinnacles for '04. This alone is a reason to give the TA the gong.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

SKYW per diem is 1.60 not 1.65 as someone stated.

Does Mesaba have a duty rig? SKYW is 1 for 2. So if you have an 11 hour duty pay is the highest of 5.5, actual block, or historic block. If you're scheduled for more than 12 you get 1 for 1 for the time over 12 hours. So a 13 hour scheduled day guarantees 7 hours pay. If actual or historic block is higher then of course you get that.

Sounds like Mesaba management is trying to throw the FO's a bone so the TA will pass. I don't know the Mesaba fleet mix but the FO rates are higher than SKYW turbprop but lower then RJ. Most SKYW pilots are in the RJ (100+RJ's, 72 or so EMB's.)

 

[redflyer65]

Pinnacles pay rates will be higher than this TA starting 5/1/04. Here's how it breaks down.... Captain

Pinnacle(5/1) Mesaba TA(49-59seats)

0-1 55.07 54.33
1-2 56.76 55.97
2-3 58.51 57.66
3-4 60.31 59.38
4-5 62.14 61.15
5-6 63.96 63.00
6-7 65.52 64.89
7-8 67.42 66.83
8-9 69.62 68.83
9-10 71.62 70.90
14-15 82.37 82.19

Don't get me wrong, I'm behind the Mesaba pilot group 110%, but I don't quite see how this is equal to your peers when it doesn't even surpass our (Pinnacle) pay rates as low as they are. I think it was managements' ploy all along to dangle the BigSky carrott in return for fairly low pay rates. Scope yes/ pay no. That's what I get out of this. Anyone else see it like this?

 

[T-handle]

Mesaba's TA payrates vs. the rest

http://home.earthlink.net/~kbrsloat/XJTA

draw your own conclusions

 

[NEWSOUTH]

??

Sorry but those graphs are 03' rates.

Draw your own conclusion from this:

PCL 3yr CA at 60.31 (50 seat)
MSA 3yr CA at 61.07 (69 seat)

Thats 58.17 X 1.05=61.07

thats 4 cents a seat per hour extra

 

[surplus1]

Your retirement benefits should not be contingent upon your salary deferment. If this were a true benefit you would get the company match regardless of your contribution. Most would be hard pressed to make that 15% contribution under the listed payscales aswell.

I don't want to meddle, but I find it amazing that the MEC even chooses to call an increase in 401K match a "retirement plan".

If ALPA now defines a 401K as "a retirement plan", think of the money the airline companies could save by changing all those fat cat A and B plans at the major airlines, which are a major source of their lack of profitability.

Sounds like we're creating yet another bad precedent.

If what the Mesaba pilots got as increased company-match to their 401K is what they find acceptable that's OK with me, but please, let's not start calling that a retirement plan.

Somebody tell me how a pilots making $27,000 per year can afford to contribute 15% ($4,050) towards his eventual retirement? The expectation of retiring with 55% FAE on that basis seems like a huge figment of somebody's imagination. The "spin" put on this in the summary of the TA is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

It's OK when you can't achieve all of your needs at the bargaining table, but its unreasonable when your leaders misrepresent what you actually got in an effort to market a TA. Surely they can be more straightforward with the truth.

Mesaba pilots deserve to be told the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That is the only way, good or bad, that they can make an informed decision on how they wish to cast their votes.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Wile,

XJ has membership ratification. Thank goodness... If this TA is voted down, the MEC has the ability to immediately call a strike or go back to management for more talking. I think our road shows next week are going to be VERY interesting.

 

[PTinbound]

Will somebody correct me if I'm wrong,
but I got the impression that we'd even lose the trip gurantee that we have, let alone gain the leg by leg gurantee.
True, False?
Someone said the only gurantee we'd have is the 75 hours.

 

[CWASaab]

Re: ??

Sorry but those graphs are 03' rates.

Draw your own conclusion from this:

PCL 3yr CA at 60.31 (50 seat)
MSA 3yr CA at 61.07 (69 seat)

Actually the rates in the graph represent what those pilots are making right now. Yes, some of them are due increases soon, and some are due new contracts soon, but the the graph shows where everyone is right now, and where XJ would be if the TA is ratified. The graphs don't make assumptions, they show the current situation.

Furthermore, your rates above are not correct. According to the ALPA research center, on the private ALPA boards, and the TA, I come up with the following pay rates as they currently apply (or in the case of the TA would apply):

PCL.......3-4yr CA....58.55 (44-59 seat) [now corrected]

MSA-TA 3-4 yr CA....59.38 (40-59 seat)
MSA......3-4 yr CA....55.97 (50-59 seat jet)

MSA-TA 3-4 yr CA.....63.59 (60-69 seat)
MSA......3-4 yr CA.....58.76 (60-69 seat)


Adding the 3[-4] yr Avro rates is of course pointless [to this comparison] since the most junior Avro CA here has been on property for six years or more. I highly doubt the Avro CA will ever again be junior to the Saab CA like it once was. I think the Avro CA will actually increase in Seniority as more people make Mesaba their career, and try to maximize pay/401(k).

 

[amcnd]

What is the typical FO at Mesaba 4 years? how long to CA?