Mesaba MX to YUL

[SEVEN]

Whatcha smokin Seven must be some good stuff.

Captain Black. And it is.

 

[GARFF]

5 crews = 10 pilots x 36 planes = 360 pilots total.








www.garffshirts.com

 

[profit]

Try 3 in May, then 2 per month thereafter till October 2008.

Also, I don't know how 36 ERJ's at compass will make that company profitable; Nor will it give it any value in an IPO. So if compass does materialize, it will likely be selected for any additional growth. If they scale back the saab in the ASA, XJ may still be a 5+ year upgrade.

That sounds plausible, but how about this? Compass remains dormant for a year, or until all the furlougees are recalled. Then, instead of starting compass, mainline converts its orders on the Embraer to all 195s. Pinnacle and Mesaba remain to duke it out over the 76 seat CRJs. Northwest places 90 CJR 705s at Mesaba prior to spinning it back off for an enormous profit...meanwhile keeping Pinnacle in section 6 for years, just like ASA.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

congrats to all the mesaba guys from this pinnacle guy. I know this is confirmed and will be announced wednesday. I know you guys have been through a lot since this bankruptcy.

I'd love to believe you, but just how do you know this is confirmed?

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

I'd love to believe you, but just how do you know this is confirmed?

Cleo confirmed it.

 

[CubanSmoker]

Believe it when you see it guys. Unless it's parked in front of the hangar with our name somewhere on it, it's B.S. It doesn't matter what the company or parent company says - they have done nothing but lie to us for YEARS.

Even when we were awarded our "15 CRJ's with options for the next 20" and a new ASA, look at what happened! Everything started looking rosy (for once) and then they turned and came at us with a baseball bat and threw us under a sham bankruptcy bus.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but NOTHING has happened except our beating behind the shed for the last 15 months. Don't buy the new car or house the day some announcement from the company comes out. Unless you're done with training and your a$$ is in the seat turning number 2 on a new airplane, it isn't real. Even then, they could turn around and bring out the bat again. Learn and remember what history at this company has taught us.

Just my pessimistic $.02.

Cheers

 

[SplitBar]

Kind of early to be hittin the Grain Belt Premium isn't it Cuban? haha

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Right you are Cuban! I always say, "We could paint my mom red and put wheels on her and call her a wagon, but we'd just be fooling ourselves!"

 

[CubanSmoker]

Kind of early to be hittin the Grain Belt Premium isn't it Cuban? haha

Not on my day off it's not!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Northwest has a contract with Bombardier saying it MUST purchase a MINIMUM of 36 CRJ 900's as a part of the bankruptcy claim against the 13 CRJ 200's. Unless they park them in the desert, they are coming.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Now for why compass is a problem, and why NWALPA should be screaming to have these ERJ's put at Mesaba.
1. Compass will be paid for by mainline employees salary.
2. Compass will require a management structure in addition to the ones at 9E + XJ
3. CPA will need buildings, hangars, training center, and property.
4. CPA will need a maintenance program .
5. They will need additional FA, Pilots, crew scheduling, dispatch, ground crew, and flight instructors .
6. CPA ERJ's will have the same engine as the CRJ 900, so instead of having 1 machine shop at XJ, they will have two with additional engines and employees.
7. CPA will not have a fleet large enough to produce a profit for the flights it makes.

So Compass will basically drain all the available income the mainline pilots will have for wage recovery in the future. That additional overhead to operate compass will result in a loss of $150 million -$300 million a year. At mesaba, the ERJ's turn profit for mainline , and would result in additional wage recovery for the ALPA pilots at NWA and Mesaba. Does ALPA even work for mainline pilots, let alone the regionals?

 

[TAWS]

I hope this is the end of the road for you guys and the BS. Some good news would be a welcome thing for all over there.

 

[xjhawk]

good point....

Now for why compass is a problem, and why NWALPA should be screaming to have these ERJ's put at Mesaba.
1. Compass will be paid for by mainline employees salary.
2. Compass will require a management structure in addition to the ones at 9E + XJ
3. CPA will need buildings, hangars, training center, and property.
4. CPA will need a maintenance program .
5. They will need additional FA, Pilots, crew scheduling, dispatch, ground crew, and flight instructors .
6. CPA ERJ's will have the same engine as the CRJ 900, so instead of having 1 machine shop at XJ, they will have two with additional engines and employees.
7. CPA will not have a fleet large enough to produce a profit for the flights it makes.

So Compass will basically drain all the available income the mainline pilots will have for wage recovery in the future. That additional overhead to operate compass will result in a loss of $150 million -$300 million a year. At mesaba, the ERJ's turn profit for mainline , and would result in additional wage recovery for the ALPA pilots at NWA and Mesaba. Does ALPA even work for mainline pilots, let alone the regionals?

this is insight that neither management nor ALPA seems to have. I hope with ALPA's new leadership some common sense prevails

 

[XJohXJ]

The only logic management cares about is the size of their paychecks and bonus payouts. The do not give a hoot about profit or needless waste. They have already proven that they can increase their bonus payouts even in bankruptcy. ANY DEAL that gives them a large PAYOUT, they will take with no thought whatsoever of ANYONE else.

 

[xjhawk]

another good point

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The only logic management cares about is the size of their paychecks and bonus payouts. The do not give a hoot about profit or needless waste. They have already proven that they can increase their bonus payouts even in bankruptcy. ANY DEAL that gives them a large PAYOUT, they will take with no thought whatsoever of ANYONE else.

No, the compass scenario lowers management pay. It maximizes bank return on corporate debt, and aircraft investment. Management is just another employee of the company. For instance look at Enron, the executives walked off with millions of dollars. However, there were some people who walked away with billions of dollars of the Enron scandal. The ones who walked off with the big money were never prosecuted.

 

[saabservant]

Believe it when you see it guys. Unless it's parked in front of the hangar with our name somewhere on it, it's B.S. It doesn't matter what the company or parent company says - they have done nothing but lie to us for YEARS.

Even when we were awarded our "15 CRJ's with options for the next 20" and a new ASA, look at what happened! Everything started looking rosy (for once) and then they turned and came at us with a baseball bat and threw us under a sham bankruptcy bus.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but NOTHING has happened except our beating behind the shed for the last 15 months. Don't buy the new car or house the day some announcement from the company comes out. Unless you're done with training and your a$$ is in the seat turning number 2 on a new airplane, it isn't real. Even then, they could turn around and bring out the bat again. Learn and remember what history at this company has taught us.

Just my pessimistic $.02.

Cheers

That is SO true- If you are not sitting in it, it isn't real. And then it is only temporary...get out while you can!

 

[xjgearbtch]

compass will be separate. The MX issue is a mute point. 1 word subcontractor. I second the previous statements even if they give us more CRJ's, the next round of negotiations they will take some(if not all) of the CRJ's away. We don't own a single airplane/GPU/ huffer cart. We are simply a body factory. Pump a bunch of "professional airline pilots" out of these pilot mills and they'll have us replaced before we could even finish with a mediator. We will get jets, the question is how many will upgrade and get OUT before NWA slams us again.

I know then get out now right, but to start over again and risk having this happen at another carrier. It's a gamble many of us can't take.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

What will XJ's CRJ-900 pay rate be?

AVRO - 19%...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

What will XJ's CRJ-900 pay rate be?

AVRO - 19%...

It will take a current captain 10 years at XJ to equal the compensation of a first year Compass captain. An newhire would never catch up to the compass compensation. This is the total package, not just payrates.

 

[SplitBar]

What will XJ's CRJ-900 pay rate be?

AVRO - 19%...

I'm at 12 year pay and it's $81.58 as opposed to $86.33 under the old book. At DOS+1 I go to $86.11.

The 19% was the total company savings, actually I think in the end it was around 15% as opposed to 19.4% that they originally wanted. 25% of the concessions came from the Multi-Class LOA alone. Actual payscales went down about 5% and with growth we snapback to old book after a couple years. Profit sharing and the $14.3 Million creditor claim are yet to be factored in. Those 2 alone could easily offset the paycut.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

So it is the same rate as the AVRO then?

 

[flap operator]

Yes, it's the same pay scale. The pay scale the avro was on was 60-69 seats. The new pay scale cuts the pay 5.5% and extends the seats to 76 seats.



FO

 

[DoinTime]

I'm at 12 year pay and it's $81.58 as opposed to $86.33 under the old book. At DOS+1 I go to $86.11.

How is the 12th year 60-76 seat rate going up 5.8% at DOS +1? I thought I remember there being 1.5% year over year increses. Or are you referencing 13th year scale plus DOS increses plus some projection on snapbacks?

 

[n32jk]

Does XJ pay still go up to 18 years??? Where would that be on a 76 seat aircraft, or will you need to negotiate a new rate for the aircraft.

 

[whaleroast]

Double occupancy at the hotel, no doubt, for those that choose to return.

 

[XJohXJ]

Double occupancy at the hotel, no doubt, for those that choose to return.

Huh?

What do you mean?

 

[flap operator]

The payscale now goes to years 19-20 of service... DOS the rate was $93.97. The FO rate of course, is still at 7-8 yrs... wouldn't want to give those guys who are topped out as FOs anymore cash!


FO

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Double occupancy at the hotel, no doubt, for those that choose to return.

Yes doubt. They didn't change training hotels to multiple occupancy.

 

[Abbey]

The payscale now goes to years 19-20 of service... DOS the rate was $93.97. The FO rate of course, is still at 7-8 yrs... wouldn't want to give those guys who are topped out as FOs anymore cash!


FO

That's what all of us FO's were saying under the last contract. I remember the "former C.P." L.S. in MSP whinning in recurrent a few years ago how he had to spend a whole 3 years as an FO. What indignity he must have suffered!!!

Now, the same FO's who were maxed out on the pitiful 1996 payscale are being downgraded and maxed out on another pitiful FO payscale.

Maybe the CA's payscale should stop at 7-8 years too, you know, to show some solidarity. I almost typed that without snickering.