Mesaba - J4J 70 seat hot rumor

[storminpilot]

It appears Northwest is in negotiations with Mesaba to be given the right to fly 70 seat jets. In exchange for that NWA wants furloughed NWA pilots to be moved to Mesaba.

 

[Crizz]

...Among other rumors.

 

[Dodge]

Just as long as they go to the bottom of our seniority list, as we would to theirs if a flow through program existed.

 

[DetoXJ]

No, they wouldn't go to the bottom...well....kind of.....I guess they would be at the bottom for bidding purposes. Are you honestly not familiar with what the NW70 proposal was/is all about? There were a gazillion official ALPA memos and postings on NW70 about 6 months ago. Call a union rep to get educated on NW70 because it could easily be on the way.

 

[T-handle]

The new NW70 program features one big happy family:

CA= furloughed NWA
FO= Mesaba FO
FA(s)= Pinnacle

 

[Dodge]

Every union rep I have talked to said that this isn't going to materialize. The real pilots are going to fly the jets, not us regional flunkies. They wouldn't lead me down the wrong path, would they?

I stand by my original statement. If we give up one single number of seniority, then we might as well just get rid of ALPA period. What's the point of a list if the list can be changed at any time to benefit someone other than ourselves.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Buzzzzzzzzz

It appears Northwest is in negotiations with Mesaba to be given the right to fly 70 seat jets. In exchange for that NWA wants furloughed NWA pilots to be moved to Mesaba.

Quoting from "A Few Good Men":
Tom Cruise: "Errrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh.... sorry that's not right... and for Lieutenant Kaffee, we have a Court Marshall"

 

[RUhiring?]

.........then we might as well just get rid of ALPA period.

Ah Grasshopper.....you are finally seeing the light.

 

[Towelie]

You can read this for yourself here. Granted, it isn't fact but it is a lead.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PlaneBusiness Banter -- Headlines from the most irreverent and talked-about weekly subscription financial and business overview of the airline industry. Published every Tuesday, except the last two weeks in August and December.[/font]​

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]03/11/05[/font]


[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What are we talking about in this week's issue?[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]* Mesaba/Northwest On Verge of New Agreement That Will Bring 70-Seaters to Mesaba[/font]



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[Propsync]

I know the NWA MEC Chair, and from talking to him, I would be floored if anyone flew 70 seaters on NW property. Look, how well is the Mid-Atlantic deal working? If it's the best thing since sliced bread everyone would be doing it by now. I know NW has started calling back a few pilots, so that's a good sign already. Someone else has to remind me how many are out on the street. I want to say they have around 500 still out.

IF they were to do this, how long would it take to sign and ratify a TA, order and take delivery, and etc. etc? My guess is a year at the min. How many callbacks will there be in the meantime? Who's paying for this large 70 seat order?

Look, they have too many 50 seaters already. They've been going to MKE and IND because there's probably nowhere else to go from the hubs. Now you want to buy new 70 seaters on top of this? The 9's are payed for and in the fleet until the next decade. If these were 90 seat rumors, I would think it's a bit more possible. Think of it as 'early' retirement of some of the 9's.

I hope I eat all of these words. I don't have a problem with that. I just think it's all a bit crazy.

BTW- It's late and I'm rambling. I'm also not trying to flame or bag on you guys, just trying to see some logic in all of this.

 

[DTWFO]

I think it's hilarious that everyone in the "hallway" is buzzing about this supposed "announcement". Maybe NWA will give us (Pinnacle) another 300 planes so our management can try to run it like we have 30 pilots and 15 flight attendants. Because it's worked so good so far.........................."that number is busy, please try your call again later"....................Simply the best!

 

[dondk]

I know NW has started calling back a few pilots, so that's a good sign already. Someone else has to remind me how many are out on the street. I want to say they have around 500 still out.

They have just over 500 left on the street, the recalls came to a screeching halt a few weeks back from about 30-40 a month. They were anticipating on getting them all back by the turn of '06. Hence this J4J rumor has a little wieght to get them all back. It is well known that NWA want's 70 seat a/c.

IF they were to do this, how long would it take to sign and ratify a TA, order and take delivery, and etc. etc? My guess is a year at the min. How many callbacks will there be in the meantime? Who's paying for this large 70 seat order?

Remember NWA still has sizable options with Bombardier. It was rumored a while back that NWA was in discussions with Bombardier regarding -700's.
One other note.. look at the ramp by the stables next time in DTW.. there is a mark for CRJ-700.

Look, they have too many 50 seaters already. They've been going to MKE and IND because there's probably nowhere else to go from the hubs.

Actually based on the scope, only 44 seat aircraft can fly out of hub flying. (MKE/IND/LAN/DSM) Our fleet is more 44 than 50 seat aircraft. NWA wants more 50 seat aircraft and as I understand the goal is to get our fleet to 95 50 seat and the balance will be 44 seat aircraft.

 

[Ace McCoy]

Actually based on the scope, only 44 seat aircraft can fly out of hub flying. (MKE/IND/LAN/DSM)

The avro is flying DCA-GRR starting May 2. According to the NWA MEC this has always been allowed but I'm not sure about that.

 

[FDJ2]

I stand by my original statement. If we give up one single number of seniority, then we might as well just get rid of ALPA period. What's the point of a list if the list can be changed at any time to benefit someone other than ourselves.

If your list is changed, it will only be done with the approval of your MEC and your ratification process. So don't worry, if you want to pass on flying the growth 70 seaters that would be extracted from mainline concessions, then go ahead, no problem.

 

[dondk]

You know.. I heard the same thing.. all I remember is when we started this whole out of hub flying we were told by our MEC that NWA MEC was watching to make sure no 50 seat a/c were on those MKE/IND routes. Additonally.. if we arrived at the gate and a 50 seat a/c was there we were suppose to call the MEC for approval.

A quote from back then
"The NWA pilot contract does not restrict the use of code share partner operations with aircraft of less than 45 seats. However, the NWA MEC Negotiating Committee has contacted NWA management regarding maintaining strict compliance with our contractual protections. The Negotiating Committee is developing a method to monitor full compliance."

Heck, I don't know.. I just work here...

 

[Beerme]

They have just over 500 left on the street, the recalls came to a screeching halt a few weeks back from about 30-40 a month. They were anticipating on getting them all back by the turn of '06. Hence this J4J rumor has a little wieght to get them all back. It is well known that NWA want's 70 seat a/c.


Nothing "screeching" about it...NWA always slows down or stops training during summer months to pull instructors back to line flying for heavy summer flying schedule. Recalls are expected to resume after summer flying.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Nothing "screeching" about it...NWA always slows down or stops training during summer months to pull instructors back to line flying for heavy summer flying schedule. Recalls are expected to resume after summer flying.

Umm... yeah... okay. That had nothing to do with the fact that NWA retired two more DC-9's and didn't bring back 4 more from the desert. Loss of six planes had nothing to do with recalls stopping.

Umm... yeah. Did you get the memo?

 

[NuGuy]

Holly got bad info. She probably got her "lead" from this board.

As previously posted in other threads, the NWA Nego. Committee hasn't met with the company on this issue in a couple of weeks. There nothing even in the works, let alone some kind hush hush agreements. Nothing has changed.

As an aside, when talking about scope in the NWA agreement, you have to separate out the AVROs from the other allowed jet flying. The AVROs are not technically considered "RJs" in the agreement, and exist in their own little envelope. Whenever you see a "RJ" limitation, such as point to point flying, it does not apply to the AVROs. They are not subject to those restrictions, and do not count against the narrowbody ratio.

They are subject to a limitation of the original aircraft, which is why you didn't see the one wrecked in MEM replaced.

Nu

They

 

[T-handle]

I see that our union reps, at least the LEC, are back to work. Wonder if this week could be THE week.

Anyone attempt to bug em? probably not even worth it. Guess the announcement will happen when it happens.

 

[General Lee]

I know the NWA MEC Chair, and from talking to him, I would be floored if anyone flew 70 seaters on NW property. Look, how well is the Mid-Atlantic deal working? If it's the best thing since sliced bread everyone would be doing it by now. I know NW has started calling back a few pilots, so that's a good sign already. Someone else has to remind me how many are out on the street. I want to say they have around 500 still out.

IF they were to do this, how long would it take to sign and ratify a TA, order and take delivery, and etc. etc? My guess is a year at the min. How many callbacks will there be in the meantime? Who's paying for this large 70 seat order?

Look, they have too many 50 seaters already. They've been going to MKE and IND because there's probably nowhere else to go from the hubs. Now you want to buy new 70 seaters on top of this? The 9's are payed for and in the fleet until the next decade. If these were 90 seat rumors, I would think it's a bit more possible. Think of it as 'early' retirement of some of the 9's.

I hope I eat all of these words. I don't have a problem with that. I just think it's all a bit crazy.

BTW- It's late and I'm rambling. I'm also not trying to flame or bag on you guys, just trying to see some logic in all of this.

They supposedly stopped the recalls and will park a few DC-9s thanks to our Simplifares program. That stinks......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[dbrownie]

Umm... yeah... okay. That had nothing to do with the fact that NWA retired two more DC-9's and didn't bring back 4 more from the desert. Loss of six planes had nothing to do with recalls stopping.

Mel,

Not to split hairs but the 4 dc-9 s were not retired they were
parked until the summer flying increase.

Now they think they don't need them.

That is the beauty of owning those jets, you can park them at
little cost until you need them again.

The 2 extra were parked for the same reason, because they can.
(My theory is also so they can squeeze more money out of us!)

Hopefully they will need them as the IND and MKE flying increases.

Dave B