Mesaba Deal Done????

[IFIxUmUBrakeUm]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070104/mesaba_northwest.html?.v=1

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Why do I feel like someone is saying, "Quick! Hurry before they get suspicious!

 

[gnx99]

Does....

creditors hope MAIR will go along with the sale

Mean MAIR will if the "MAIR letter" goes away?

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

They seem to be banking on that letter being voided. If not, they've got a dinky airline an some stolen cash.

 

[Stallion]

Here is the link to The Star and Sickle. I was finally starting to enjoy my seven years in the right seat. Oh well.

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/916401.html

 

[TAWS]

Crisis # (place number here)

XJ senior folks will be offered another carrot - they'll bite, junior guys get fukced AGAIN!!!
ALPA will have to throw everything they can behind this one and the apathy level among mainline guys will have to be adjusted, for XJ'rs to get a fair shake when this is all over.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Why do I get the distinct impression that MAIR Holdings is about to play a significant role in my life as a Comair pilot? The attempted dissolution of the "Mesaba letter", Big Sky being awarded DL 1900 flying in BOS, and the results of the RFP not being publicly announced. No doubt I'm feeling a screwing coming on...and not the enjoyable kind either.

 

[xjhawk]

maybe i am not seeing it.....

Crisis # (place number here)

XJ senior folks will be offered another carrot - they'll bite, junior guys get fukced AGAIN!!!
ALPA will have to throw everything they can behind this one and the apathy level among mainline guys will have to be adjusted, for XJ'rs to get a fair shake when this is all over.

How exactly will us junior guys get screwed again? enlighten me oh great master.

I hope ALPA will fight for that MAIR letter, it might prove interesting in the future to have a number at some far off company.....Oh, and if NWA does aquire us, would we be within NWA or standing outside the door, getting hit everytime it swings open or shut? I do know one thing, in the near term, i think this would be the best for everyone, exept MAIR, and i could not give a crap abou them!

 

[thesource]

Step #1 the day of the sale: I hope someone at alpa files for a PID!

 

[xjmnpilot]

Step #1 the day of the sale: I hope someone at alpa files for a PID!

PID...

Personal ID?
Partial Initial Decision?
Pelvic Infammatory Disease?

 

[PCL_128]

Step #1 the day of the sale: I hope someone at alpa files for a PID!

Yes, because that worked out so well the last time a pilot group tried it.

Filing for a PID without getting the support of the mainline MEC first would be a major mistake and doom the effort to failure. You've got to be careful about how you do those things. Knowing Captain Wychor, I'm sure he won't be dumb enough to try that anyway.

Oh, and for xjmnpilot, PID stands for Policy Initiation Date. It's the first step in a seniority list integration under ALPA merger policy.

 

[XJohXJ]

Yes, absolutely, positively, we must get the support of the mainline MEC. As bad as things are in the Red Tail dysfunctional family, seniority integration is the only possible positive outcome for the Mesaba pilots in this deal. Otherwise, we will just be royally f#cked yet again in a couple more years. (Like it hasn't already happened enough for all of the labor groups).

 

[gnx99]

I feel like punching the CFI who did my intro ride. Dang trickster. Maybe I can at least get my money back and put it towards that engineering degree I never finished?

 

[Hpilot]

Hello BSY RJs

Why do I get the distinct impression that MAIR Holdings is about to play a significant role in my life as a Comair pilot? The attempted dissolution of the "Mesaba letter", Big Sky being awarded DL 1900 flying in BOS, and the results of the RFP not being publicly announced. No doubt I'm feeling a screwing coming on...and not the enjoyable kind either.

Yeah, I noticed in the articles about Big Sky and Delta they kept saying, "initially" Big Sky will fly 19 seater's. Then when the buy out appeared in the news I understood the, "initially". Glad to see Big Sky do well, but it shouldn't be at Mesaba's expense(their money).

 

[Fly4hire]

Yes, absolutely, positively, we must get the support of the mainline MEC. As bad as things are in the Red Tail dysfunctional family, seniority integration is the only possible positive outcome for the Mesaba pilots in this deal. Otherwise, we will just be royally f#cked yet again in a couple more years. (Like it hasn't already happened enough for all of the labor groups).

I can tell you unequivocally there is no interest in doing an integration - XJ does not bring enough to the table, and the NW pilots have no stomach to expend thier negotiating captial to enhance another pilot groups career.

My prediction - XJ operates as an wholly owned affiliate, no integration, flow up for XJ, down for NW less 36 Avro carve outs. NW pumps them up with CRJ-900's at the expense of 9E that can barely handle what they have, and are having staffing/upgrade issues. Once back to thier former glory and better they will be spun off in a sale that makes big $$ for NW while still being bound by the ASA. Stock will be worth many dinero's rid of the MAIR robber barons. The creditor's cmte knows this and will approve the deal......

 

[avrorj-85]

Get ready...

Why do I get the distinct impression that MAIR Holdings is about to play a significant role in my life as a Comair pilot? The attempted dissolution of the "Mesaba letter", Big Sky being awarded DL 1900 flying in BOS, and the results of the RFP not being publicly announced. No doubt I'm feeling a screwing coming on...and not the enjoyable kind either.

Welcome to this Mesaba FO's world the last seven years...

 

[avrorj-85]

We knew it was coming...

I can tell you unequivocally there is no interest in doing an integration - XJ does not bring enough to the table, and the NW pilots have no stomach to expend thier negotiating captial to enhance another pilot groups career.

Ahh yes. NWA Mainline Arrogagance rears its ugly head. I can only hope that for every arrogant knucklehead like you at mainline that there are guys that realize that if we all stick together we might actually be able to get something accomplished. Now is the time. "Brand Scope" has been the ALPA buzzword for quite some time now. It is either now or never. Maybe if we were all together to begin with you guys would not have had to use all your "negotiating capital" to keep compass or northstar or Sjet or whatever it is you are calling it this week from taking all your mainline jobs.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Mainline creep is the problem. So, no there will not be any list integration, since captains could bid up to a mainline FO. Such an arrangement would drain mesaba of all its pilots by the end of this year. NWA has to hire from the outside. They need 2000+ pilots over the next five years. They will block anything in court pertaining to a merger of the lists other than a heavily metered flow up.

They would have to raise the captain rates on the 76 seat jet and the saab to above the DC-9 and the Buses FO pay to keep qualified captains. This would have to be done for safety's sake. This would benefit NWA pilots big time, but it ain't going to happen.

 

[PCL_128]

I can tell you unequivocally there is no interest in doing an integration - XJ does not bring enough to the table, and the NW pilots have no stomach to expend thier negotiating captial to enhance another pilot groups career.

Sigh.... You guys never learn. Fifteen years of whipsaw between the mainline and regional groups, and you still don't get it.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Yeah, I noticed in the articles about Big Sky and Delta they kept saying, "initially" Big Sky will fly 19 seater's. Then when the buy out appeared in the news I understood the, "initially". Glad to see Big Sky do well, but it shouldn't be at Mesaba's expense(their money).

Or Comair's.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Or Comair's.

Apples and oranges, Kiddo. Both rotten, but what's being mentioned in this case is that Mesaba profits have subsidized Big Sky (which should be bankrupt carrier, if anyone is) since its purchase.

That said, I don't like the brand dissolution either. Good luck Comair.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

They would have to raise the captain rates on the 76 seat jet and the saab to above the DC-9 and the Buses FO pay to keep qualified captains. This would have to be done for safety's sake. This would benefit NWA pilots big time, but it ain't going to happen.

Uhhhh, beg pardon? Can you splain that for us slow regional-types?

 

[Quack]

Don't bite on the fact that mainline may offer you guys some sort of flow thru agreement. Look at what has happened at PDT and PSA. We were offered the flow thru agreement years ago, and it is still being negotiated by our MEC and mainline. We were supposed to flow up to MidAtlantic, and then on to mainline. Guess who is the one that created MidAtlantic, sold MidAtlantic, and left most of the guys here in the dust. The SAME CFO who is at NWA. So don't get giddy like the guys here did and settle for something until it is in print...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I can tell you unequivocally there is no interest in doing an integration - XJ does not bring enough to the table, and the NW pilots have no stomach to expend their negotiating capital to enhance another pilot groups career.

Fly4hire....What is your pay based off of, Do you know? It's productivity. During the best contract years at NWA pilots at mainline were flying on average 17,000,000 passenger miles per year. Today mainline pilots are flying on average about 10,000,000 passenger miles. Do you think that you deserve your old pay rate if you fly less passengers? The answer is NO, and this is why you received a pay cut. 20% of that productivity loss is directly related to the flying shift to the regionals. By effectively removing the regionals from your mainline carrier, the company is forced to increase productivity of its own pilot group. By integrating the list to get back 76 seat scope when the jets arrive, you can negotiate at least a 15% increase in pay on the next contract.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Uhhhh, beg pardon? Can you splain that for us slow regional-types?

Imagine you have a fixed number of pilots on one list. The pilots on that list want the highest rate of pay possible. Currently NWA offers a higher salary for a DC9 FO than they do for a compass captain. So if you integrate the list, you have they only qualified captains going to DC-9 FO slots rather than remaining a CRJ captain. That leaves you with 500 hr pilots as the only available captains on the CRJs. So to prevent such a thing from happening, you have to raise the captain rate on the CRJ to above a mainline FO salary to keep the qualified pilots. In other words if you were on the mainline list, would you rather fly the saab or an A320 if your number held both?

Based on mainline payrates, the CRj-900 starting captain salary would have to be at least $95 hr. This is why pilots are so fcuking stupid.

 

[captain dad]

SHOCKER!!!

I hope you all stretched and loosened up at the gym. Because bend over, here it comes!


Anybody wanna take bets what Spanjers gets out of this deal?

"May he fall in love with a three legged goat with a permanent erection named Slurpy!"

 

[XJohXJ]

Which is why, of course, the ONLY thing worth fighting over for XJ pilots is a number on the mainline list.

 

[Fly4hire]

Ahh yes. NWA Mainline Arrogagance rears its ugly head.

Ahh yes, Feeder inferiority complex rears it's ugly head.....

Neither have anything to do with it. The fact is the the NWA pilot group is beaten down 40% plus in wage and bennies. The focus is on contract repair.

I've been hearing the swan song of integration and we end the whipsaw for years. You fail to recognize that even one feeder outside the integrated entity starts it all up again. Even if we were to integrate Compass, XJ, 9E to everyone's saitisfaction that would not prevent NW from selling off the wholly owned sub. or going out and code sharing with another aand starting it all over again.

The reason it has not happen before and won't now is because it has limited value to the pilots at the mainline at a heavy price. Of course you'll sing the "they don't get it, all we have to do is integrate and life is wonderful" tune, but if that was the case why haven't other groups tried this before? Cause there is no value!

Of course to you there is. Willing to take a straight staple? No, of course not

.....end of discussion.

 

[xjlifer]

Ahh yes, Feeder inferiority complex rears it's ugly head.....

Neither have anything to do with it. The fact is the the NWA pilot group is beaten down 40% plus in wage and bennies. The focus is on contract repair.

I've been hearing the swan song of integration and we end the whipsaw for years. You fail to recognize that even one feeder outside the integrated entity starts it all up again. Even if we were to integrate Compass, XJ, 9E to everyone's saitisfaction that would not prevent NW from selling off the wholly owned sub. or going out and code sharing with another aand starting it all over again.

The reason it has not happen before and won't now is because it has limited value to the pilots at the mainline at a heavy price. Of course you'll sing the "they don't get it, all we have to do is integrate and life is wonderful" tune, but if that was the case why haven't other groups tried this before? Cause there is no value!

Of course to you there is. Willing to take a straight staple? No, of course not

.....end of discussion.

Unfortunately Fly4hire has it right. It really has nothing to do with Mainline arrogance. Look at the crying that went on at Xj when we took a few 9E captains way back when.

 

[XJohXJ]

Mistakes of the past do not justify making the same mistakes in the future. ALPA is broken, and one way to fix it is to increase unity. Increased unity does not mean saying "oh, tough luck guys, that's too bad, maybe we'll give some of you interviews over here on our property". It means, "we are in this together, working together, and our fates are together". Yes, of course mainline can shut us out. Then I will know that ALPA is useless and dead.