Mesa training.....any input?

[350DRIVER]

bobby,

You usually have some beneficial information to bring to this topic but I disagree with you with regards to your comments about the interview and process. I am pretty close friends with a senior check airman at Mesa and have been for years so I can tell you after speaking with him (he also does interviews) that if you make it to the interview then you basically have the job. Very very seldom does the interview board turn away a Mesa grad coming out of the programs that they offer, this is a fact. If you make it to the interview then you will get the job, bottom line... You pretty much have to screw something up and work at it rather hard to get turned away after being trained the Mesa way from day 1. I know many who have went through the programs at MAPD and they all got hired and many have moved on to bigger and greener pastures. It is easy to assume things but this isn't nearly some sort of ''gamble" as you seem to think it may be.

Mesa is in no way a "career" airline but it is a pretty good stepping stone to get your foot into the door for many of the "low timers" who do not have many options. This is by far hands down the quickest way to get to the right seat of a 121 operation.

nostrand, don't even worry about this, you get the interview and you will get the job. This is not nearly as big of a gamble as some would lead one to believe.

good luck to you

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[bobbysamd]

Murphy's Law

Very very seldom does the interview board turn away a Mesa grad coming out of the programs that they offer, this is a fact. If you make it to the interview then you will get the job, bottom line... You pretty much have to screw something up and work at it rather hard to get turned away after being trained the Mesa way from day 1.

I instructed at MAPD and had a student who heretofore had antagonized everyone. This individual had been injured in the military and, for that reason, believed that everyone owed him. He was assigned to me, probably because I was new, and, eventually, he antagonized me. I took this matter to the Chief Instructor, who decided that this individual could finish the program but was not worthy of getting "the interview."

Getting "the interview" very well may be a done deal for most MAPD attendees, but it is not guaranteed, nor is getting hired. If something can go wrong, it will.

 

[350DRIVER]

I instructed at MAPD and had a student who heretofore had antagonized everyone. This individual had been injured in the military and, for that reason, believed that everyone owed him. He was assigned to me, probably because I was new, and, eventually, he antagonized me. I took this matter to the Chief Instructor, who decided that this individual could finish the program but was not worthy of getting "the interview."

Getting "the interview" very well may be a done deal for most MAPD attendees, but it is not guaranteed, nor is getting hired. If something can go wrong, it will.

bobby,

As I previously stated in my initial response, there are those rare cases such as your example that justify the MAPD grad not getting hired. I am a tad surprised that Castle, Crystal & company even allowed a "problem" to continue to stay in the program and make it to the interview process, usually this will not happen since the policy has been to wash them out and not allow them to continue to disrupt the flow of the program. This is the same as the famous "deadlines" that the students/instructors "color in" on the flow chart board to track expected and required progress, you fall too far behind, blow it off, lack initiative, get too many letters of reprimand in your file, etc, then you probably will not make it to the end either. These folks who run the program have no patience for people who intentionally try to disrupt a "perfectly tweaked machine." They put the official letters of reprimand in the students file for a reason, you accumulate enough of them then adios, cya, bye bye.. They certainly do this for a reason, to weed those out who are not complying to what is in place and expected. If my memory serves me correct it was John Green (ex-MAPD COO) who is now at UPS who started this practice which continues to this day.

I have heard very similar stories as you have stated but the difference is that those who were the "cause" of problems were sent packing and home before they could even think about completing the program or interview. Keep your nose clean, study hard, keep a low profile, do what is expected, and work your butt off then you will get the job, bottom line... Screw up, cause problems, etc, then you most likely won't even make it to the interview.

The interview IS most certainly guaranteed for all those who successfully complete these programs, this has been the biggest selling point from day 1 which still continues to this day. This is probably the single most important reason that low time pilots decide to go this route, you won't have many other options upon completion of this program if you don't make it through the program.

A friend of mine who completed the program in 97 spent a year as a 1900 first officer, upgraded to captain, spent another year there, got hired on as a B757 FO at ATA where he is at present day and on his days off he is one of the "Jet Sim" instructors at MAPD and he has also verified the above. His entire MAPD class didn't even interview in PHX, they went right to ground school since Mesa was extremely short on first officers and the interview board knew that they would be successful since they made it this far and they knew the "product" that they were getting. This has happened to more than a few MAPD classes..


The bottom line is that this program works and you will most certainly get the interview if you are successful in this program, no strings attached. I don't think this is nearly as big of a gamble as some tend to believe, I think it is quite the opposite in fact.

Keep in mind that you also need to interview to before you even get accepted into the program, this is done for a reason. The program may be a money maker for Mesa Airlines but in no way, shape, or form is it a scam.

No program or airline will "guarantee" a job, this holds true pretty much in any industry that you look into. YOU (the student) must put the work in to be successful, you won't be "spoon fed" in Farmington and one should not expect that. If you expect that then you will be writing your own ticket out of Farmington.

With that said this is still by far the best program out there in my opinion that is the fastest way to get to the regionals. I have and will continue to suggest this program for those who are interested in getting into the right seat in the shortest amount of time possible.

Put the odds in your favor and minimize the risk and vulnerability factors and all will go well. I look at this program in comparison to the Delta Connection program and the difference is like night and day.

nostrand- be smart, do the research, speak to those who have been through this program and I am pretty sure that you will be in agreement with what I am saying. I would be more than happy to address any additional specifics that you may have, feel free to continue to pm me. I would also suggest that you give the MAPD program a call and they will put you in contact with current as well as former students who will tell you like it is and what can and will be expected of you during your time in Farmington.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

Mapd

bobby,

As I previously stated in my initial response, there are those rare cases such as your example that justify the MAPD grad not getting hired. I am a tad surprised that Castle, Crystal & company even allowed a "problem" to continue to stay in the program and make it to the interview process, usually this will not happen since the policy has been to wash them out and not allow them to continue to disrupt the flow of the program.

My case happened while John Green was the Chief Flight Instructor. Rich Castle is after my time at MAPD, so I cannot speak for those times. I recall at least one more recalicitrant type I had who refused to learn callouts and was generally argumentative. But I believe he was through after his first term.

This is the same as the famous "deadlines" that the students/instructors "color in" on the flow chart board to track expected and required progress, you fall too far behind, blow it off, lack initiative, get too many letters of reprimand in your file, etc, then you probably will not make it to the end either . . . . . If my memory serves me correct it was John Green (ex-MAPD COO) who is now at UPS who started this practice which continues to this day.

You are correct. That (stupid) flow chart was created on butcher paper or something and posted, perhaps, in the same room as the vending machines. It's been more than eleven years, so I don't remember exactly. (So, that's what happened to John Green . . . .)

I call that chart stupid because, in my $0.02 opinion, it was a distraction to learning for many students. I had another student at MAPD who was so obsessed with that chart and was in such a rush to complete his flights that he was not thinking enough about learning. I told him repeatedly that if he would just think about learning and have less of a hard-on about the chart that the chart would take care of itself. At that time I had already given about 4200 hours of flight instruction at two other well-known 141 schools and as an independent instructor, and had given stage checks and/or pre-stage checks at both schools, so I believed I knew what I was talking about regarding flight training. This was the individual about whom I have written in the past who landed at an airport for which I did not sign him off and the school did not approve during one of his cross-countries. By rights, I could have had a chat about him with the Chief Instructor about what he did, but I didn't.

Keep your nose clean, study hard, keep a low profile, do what is expected, and work your butt off then you will get the job, bottom line... Screw up, cause problems, etc, then you most likely won't even make it to the interview.

That is the point I've tried to make nearly every time I post about MAPD. But, people have to realize going-in that there is virtually no tolerance for messing-up, screwing-up, screwing-off and screwoffs in the MAPD program. In other words, keep up with the program, do what you are told and keep your yap buttoned, and you will make it to the promised land of "the interview."

No program or airline will "guarantee" a job, this holds true pretty much in any industry that you look into. YOU (the student) must put the work in to be successful, you won't be "spoon fed" in Farmington and one should not expect that. If you expect that then you will be writing your own ticket out of Farmington.

(emphasis added)

Here again, same point I'm trying to make, about MAPD and any other alternative to traditional time-building, and airline hiring, generally.

It may appear that 350 and I do not agree about MAPD. Not really. I have recommended MAPD's ab initio program only as much or more as I have recommended FlightSafety. I worked at both. I know both. I like both. Just beware of the risks and decide which one, or other program, suits your needs, goals and personality the best. If you are a person who is uncooperative, complains, questions things, generally disagrees with things, questions authority, not accepting of instruction, or are generally argumentative and expects to be catered-to, then MAPD may not be for you. If you are disciplined, cooperative, and respectful and accepting of authority, instruction and rules, and do what you are asked, then MAPD and you might be a good fit.

 

[RSixer]

"Fly because you want to... NOT for the $$$."


AHHHHHHH, I remember those days.

 

[Night_Flight]

Good luck if you decide to do it!

I wouldn't...

-Night_Flight-

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm doing my flight training with mesa. I have to say they are VERY professional and I'm VERY happy. I did my research before I started. I had my reasons why I chose Mesa over others... PM me if you want more info....


Fly because you want to... NOT for the $$$.

sandslob
www.lifeisabeach.us

yup...this tool will be the same guy who is posting about poor QOL and $hit pay in his POS RJ 18 months from now.

But hey, "fly because you want to", "not for the $$$$"...


dip$hit.

 

[fasteddy69]

How much is the PACE program???

 

[mayday1]

I believe the PACE program is ~12-13k, plus all your other living expenses (I don't think they offer housing).

 

[bobbysamd]

Don't pick up the PACE

Here's the PACE webpage. Now, reread all the comments above and run a search on PACE, and think carefully about whether you really want to risk that kind of money on an interview.