Mesa-The Anti-Christ of Regionals

[WSurf]

Meanstreak,

US Airways caught on to mesa pulling that bull with running a flight 6 hrs late with no pax and getting paid for it. Now if that flight isn't completed within 2 hrs they dont paid.
Oh! Did I fail to mention.... MESA SUXS

LOL, GOOD DAY

 

[stillaboo]

Do you know why you have high completion rates?

I thought the Mesa # wasn't that great, actually.

It's certainly not because your on time. Ask any gate agent in the US Airways system, they will tell you. They fly planes 6 hours or later behind schedule just to make sure the completion rate is high.

On time arrivals:
Mesa: 68%
Freedom: 76%

Again, I'll let the #'s speak for themselves.

99% of these flights get flown empty

Load factors:
Mesa: 73%
Freedom: 79%

These are the facts, and they are undisputed.

-Boo!

 

[meanstreak]

WSurf, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't think US Airways was aware they were pulling that crap.

 

[Mesa Lifer]

Uhhhhhh?

Your jobs? Your planes? Your business? A list of every regional pilot group complaining about this?

What color are the planes you are flying?

United Express , US Airways Express , Delta Connection , American Connection ...the list goes on.

Whose jobs are these really? Let's not get too greedy here folks. None of the jet flying should have been OURS to begin with. The jets should be flown at mainline. Plain and simple. But they aren't, things are the way they are, and get all the facts. Mesa pilots caved is an opinion, not fact. Get the facts completely straight before you insult a group on such a low level. Otherwise you are only showing how stupid you really are.

When someone gets ALL the facts of what went on here from March 2001 to February 2003 and what we put up with and why the contract passed with a 75% approval, and you still want to bash like you do then go ahead. At least then you will have your story straight.

I voted yes, I'll tell you to your face I did, and I will wear my badge outside my uniform. I don't have to explain myself to anyone. I acted within my rights, did not scab, and followed the advice of our MEC and negotiating committee. Do I wish things were different here, you bet. But as it has been said before here if you think we are going to take over everyone's flying, and by that I mean what you guys think is your's when it is not, we may. But you can bet we will screw it up because this company is run by a bunch of idiots. A bunch of idiots do not fly here.

An Army with a great leader and dumb troops will succeed where one with a dumb leader and smart troops will fail.

-ML

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

First off, Machdog... You're an idiot.

Next up, I voted yes. I wear my id badge and my hat in CLT and PHL and I know that all of you will cave, not because we did, but because you're all weak, like we are.....

Flame on....

 

[buttercup]

Mesa is however directly responsible for pissing on the bravery, courage, and hard work of the Comair pilot group.

 

[blott]

chq 94% voted for strike....FA-Q mesa (Grog)(lifer)( crj579)(etc)
(and that's with the whole Republic deal...hanging over our heads..that's why we will strike)

We aren't weak, we aren't "scared" , like you were/are...we are PISSED OFF and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT-I hope we have your support, and everyone elses when the time comes.

B

 

[meanstreak]

Personally I have not met one pilot that has told me he voted yes for that contract. You would think after talking to about 20 of these guys in the last few months I would have met one that said they voted yes. Seems everyone is still a little scared of what other people think. Just my opinion.

 

[OneTuffGuy]

It is simple you all work and defend MESA because no one else would hire you. Why else would you work for such crap money? Yes i know you will all deny this but, come on. Why would you take a job at MESA over a job at ASA, COMAIR, Atlantic Coast, TranStates, Chq, PSA, SkyWest, Etc... or any other airline that has or will be getting Jets with a decent pay scale and work rules? You work for MESA cause no one else wants you. As for a 75% pass on the Contract the reason for this is you all got scared and voted yes, cause no MESA = no pilot hat to wear. Funny thing is some airlines the pilots dont wear them anyways.

 

[Beantown]

It is simple you all work and defend MESA because no one else would hire you. Why else would you work for such crap money? Yes i know you will all deny this but, come on. Why would you take a job at MESA over a job at ASA, COMAIR, Atlantic Coast, TranStates, Chq, PSA, SkyWest, Etc... or any other airline that has or will be getting Jets with a decent pay scale and work rules? You work for MESA cause no one else wants you. Funny thing is some airlines the pilots dont wear them anyways.

Ya, TranStates, PSA and CHQ have awsome contracts. (what ever)

"As for a 75% pass on the Contract the reason for this is you all got scared and voted yes, cause no MESA = no pilot hat to wear."

As did ACA, Air Wisky and Skywest. What's your point? -Bean

ps Half the pilots at Mesa fly for America West and they don't wear hats there you idiot.

 

[Sleepyhead]

It's funny, I read all these posts about how Mesa pilots have ruined it for everyone else by voting for a "consessionary" TA.

How come I don't see the same people bashing the United pilots for voting for a 30% pay cut and other work rule consessions?
I don't see anyone bashing them saying "they have lowered the pay for the rest of us".

Maybe when you guys grow up you will realize this industry is a business and the CEOs job is to make money for the stockholders.
If JO can find a way to steal market share from other carriers and grow his fleet, he is going to do it.
I think the real reason many of you are complaining is that you see Mesa growing and your companys are shrinking.

 

[Cadillac]

Ya just... don't get it, do you Scott?

Sleepyhead,
After reading many posts on this subject, it is my understanding that people are not mad/yelling at United because it is a great place to work. Pay is near top of the industry, work rules are fantastic, pension plan, per diem, equipment, etc. Sure some of these things have changed, but their flying pilots will not be applying for food stamps anytime soon. It looks like mesa's pilots make less than most pilots running freight, corporate, some flight instructors, janitors, etc. and have worse work conditions.

United is fighting for its life, while mesa appears to have lowered their labor costs for the sole purpose of undercutting the already meager wages of their competitors in order to get more flying. People are upset because this contract has then been thrown in the face of many other pilot groups and told to eat it or lose their jobs. Concessions all around, and more pilots on food stamps.

I think people ARE upset because mesa is growing and their companies are shrinking. It is the method by which mesa went about getting this growth that upsets people, and the repercussions of it. Not too many people are excited about quitting their better paying jobs at Air Wisconsin, ACA, etc. to go work at a growing mesa. Personally, I choose not to work for their wages, and will wait till I'm called by a company that respects me as a professional pilot, not some labor tool that should be intimidated/scared into signing the lowest wage that management thinks it can walk away with.

 

[Sleepyhead]

"...and will wait till I'm called by a company that respects me as a professional pilot, not some labor tool that should be intimidated/scared into signing the lowest wage that management thinks it can walk away with "

Ha Ha, good luck, I can only think of 1 or 2 airlines that would pass that test.

 

[LearLove]

Mesa Deicing Program

https://goproline.american-data.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000003/M660.jpg

 

[Floyd94]

Mesa is however directly responsible for pissing on the bravery, courage, and hard work of the Comair pilot group.

Mesa is indeed the anchor of the entire airline industry

 

[OneTuffGuy]

Hey beantown get your head out of where the sun dont shine look at the contracts of TSA, CHQ, and PSA compare them to MESA and you will realize where the better place to work is. As for me being an idiot as you say that is fine maybe I am however at least I dont work for a company that everyone hates. If you want to continue life defending your precious MESA go ahead see what the rest of us care. If i worked for MESA I would not defend it like all you do, I would say hey we messed up we voted yes when we should of stood our ground. Why cant just one of you say admit your contract sucks and you only work at MESA cause it is a job and if you had the option you would work elsewhere for better money and or work rules?

 

[C150Heavy]

Onetuffguy Vs. Whiskey Driver

Who else believes that Onetuffguy is Whiskey Driver? I do.

All you Mesa bit_ _ ers, answer my post from above, please.

 

[crashpad]

Now that you mention it Jimmy, it is strange that you never see WD and OTG together. I wonder....

 

[bogberto]

Hey don't forget that we're to blame for the gas shortage in PHX. This is our home town, ya know.

I voted yes on the contract for one reason only: to stop Freedumb. I should be a Captain right now, but ... I'm not. But there are plenty of left-seaters over there flying my airplane and making my Captain rate, crappy that it is. With the contract, I will get my seat, and they will lose it.

I've met quite a few people who approached me as mature adults, not like some of the 5-year-olds on here, and asked why I voted yes. I explained the situation to them, and all understood why we passed that P.O.S. TA. See, Freedom was not a threat, it was and is a reality. They had about 10 aircraft when we approved the TA, and currently they're doing over half of our PHX flying.

I don't want your job. I don't want your flying. Hell I don't even want CR7 or CR9 flying. I want that at any and all mainline carriers. I have no desire to stay at a regional for the rest of my life. So don't piss and moan about how I ruined your life. Mesa as a Delta Connection carrier? It'll never happen. Northwest Airlink? Only in our dreams. Continental Connection? Hell, boys, we couldn't even get AirTran! Wakeup! We get HP, UA, and US because they NEED cheap regional feed to stay alive. DAL, NWA, and CAL can afford to pay for quality feed.

PDT, ALG, and PSA: in my opinion, yes we are taking your flying. If you were not 3 separate companies, you'd be doing it (costs are too high as 3). Hopefully things can get straightened out.

I wear my badge outside of my pocket for everyone to see. I watch the childish glares from our codeshare partners, I hear the snickers from you "holier than thous," and I laugh at how we all consider ourselves professionals. I don't sign the codeshare agreements; I just fly the plane.

 

[blzr]

Maiden......

That is so gay. You voted yes and yu have to live with it as do the rest of us in the industry right now.

Yes, you will be a regional pilot for the rest of your career. Unless you go to that (PICK YOUR AIRLINE) interview and when you say.."Yes, I worked at Mesa"... I bet you will also say "..But I voted no on that contract" Won't you. I doubt very much that there will be many MAJOR jobs out there for a long time.


PDT, ALG, and PSA have an integrated senority list, but Fort Fumble..AKA Crystal City.. won't let us be one carrier. We are powerless under mainline rule. You must have majored in THE Obvious at San Juan College. We all know it would be cheaper, and more productive if we were one carrier.


I'm just glad Freedom came along and gave you guys some of the same BACK DOOR LUVIN' you all are giving us.

 

[B1900DFO]

Just curious, how do the Freedom pay rates compare to the newly negotiated Mesa rates?

Also it is my understanding that mesa has somewhere in the neighborhood of 170+ aircraft. Freedom had 10....So if you guys had gone on strike and demanded a reasonable, not great, but reasonable wage then how in the world could JO have said no??? He couldn't replace Mesa with 10 rj's and a few shady pilots. Sure he talked big but everybody saw the list of Freedom pilots circulating throughout the crew rooms and nobody, besides the degenerates already there wanted to be on that list. Even if every airplane was shifted to Freedom's certificate overnight if you guys had stood strong there would have been nobody to fly the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** things. Think Comair....

JO is a self proclaimed glutton for growth and there is no way he would risk losing his contracts if all you guys were demanding was a blue-collar wage. Seems to me that you guys had JO exactly where you wanted him. A strike at Mesa likely would have sent US Airways over the brink. They couldn't have afforded to lose the feed in the middle of the restructuring process. I'm sure you don't care what I think but it appears like you guys passed up a big opportunity. It is sad that you guys are still cheaper than the WO's. Their pay rates are nothing to write home about. I'm sure JO and Seagall are laughing themselves to sleep at night thinking about the regionals fighting to see who can work for less. Enjoy that left seat.

 

[bogberto]

B1900DFO: I'm not sure how the original Freedom rates compare to what we have. There are currently 20 RJs on the Freedom certificate and 70 on the Mesa certificate. We weren't concerned with Freedom taking all of our flying overnight; we knew it would take about a year. We could have voted the TA down, but we never would have gained scope, pay, or anything else, because the Freedom rates were already substandard. We were screwed either way, and would get blamed for everything either way.

Blzr: My post is gay? That's great. Thanks for your input. And no, I didn't go to San Juan College. But thanks for asking. In the meantime, feel free to report every Mesa discrepancy to Siegel; it will help us as it helps you. No worries here.

C150Heavy: Yes sir you are correct. ALPA's President, Duane Woerth, signed our contract after we voted on it. Our Negotiating Committee was assisted by ALPA "National," so it's not like our boys sat in a corner and schemed a way to screw the world. Our POS Contract received the full support of ALPA.

 

[blzr]

Too funny. "their pay was already substandard" compared to what?

Again, It's not the pay rate, it's the work rules. How many times have you been at FL290, looked at your watch and said under your breath, " another 10 minutes and I'll be flying this B!tch for free!" I bet more than once. Block or better, cancellation pay. If you get out of bed, drive to the airport, go through security, and sign in don't you think you should get compensated at least a minimum day?

Our f/o rates are much less than your Captain rates, but I bet I don't make much less than they do. You as an F/o probably make about what our f/a's make.

Who's substandard?

 

[Beantown]

A strike at Mesa likely would have sent US Airways over the brink. They couldn't have afforded to lose the feed in the middle of the restructuring process.

1900, That all sounds great on paper and without all the facts.

This is the problem. With US Airways in BK and America West on the verge, there is no way Bush and Co. would have ever let Mesa strike. Without the strike threat, the Mesa pilots had zero leverage. Freedumb was growing 3 planes a month (replacing much of Mesa's flying in PHX) and, I know you don't want to believe it, but they had plenty of pilots to fly those planes. Most of them former Major guys on furlough who were promised a CA slot with a good seniority #. These guys aren't worried about killing there careers b/c they are already at or near the end of it. Trust me, I talked to a few of these idiots from US Airways and United.

Second, Had Mesa gone on strike, JO had a deal in place to lease all the U ERJ's and CRJ's to Midatlantic (his bud "Dave") He was then going to go after the United flying with Freedumb.

All the fools on this board think that things would be different if Mesa had held out and went on strike. Here's what would have happened:

1. Mesa would be gone.

2. Air Midwest was to be sold or shut down.

3. Freedumb would be growing and bidding for both the United flying and the US Airways flying.

4. ACA, Skywest and Air Wiskie would still have had to take concessions to compete with Freedumb, TSA and CHQ, who all have lower cost structures.

Everyone's anger should be at the pilots that went to Freedumb. Without them, Mesa would have had the leverage needed to push JO and get the fair contract they deserve. To bad everyone expresses there emotions on this board instead of there intellect. -Bean

 

[Beantown]

Maiden......

Yes, you will be a regional pilot for the rest of your career. Unless you go to that (PICK YOUR AIRLINE) interview and when you say.."Yes, I worked at Mesa"... I bet you will also say "..But I voted no on that contract" Won't you. I doubt very much that there will be many MAJOR jobs out there for a long time.

Major airline pilots could care less what regional airline your from, they hate all of us for taking "there flying". Yes blzr, they even hate the all mighty PDT pilots.

"I'm just glad Freedom came along and gave you guys some of the same BACK DOOR LUVIN' you all are giving us."

That back door lovin is what started this whole mess and has only hurt the WO's. To bad your to bitter and to stupid to see it. -Bean

 

[blzr]

Yeah, I think it's great to see you upset that someone else was doing to you what you are doing to everyone else.

Also, don't call people stupid on here 'till you learn the difference between "your" and "You're".. ok..

 

[astin]

not some labor tool that should be intimidated/scared into signing the lowest wage that management thinks it can walk away with

6th year captains on the CRJ are at 6-figures...not too shabby.
Have you seen the contract you are preaching about?
A large part of the cost savings came from reduced training events.
Also, since when was Mesa Airlines EVER the posterchild for decent wages? Nobody took a paycut w/ the new contract...why is everybody bitching now? Just because management at other regionals are claiming you must take concessions because of Mesa airlines new contract does not mean that Mesa ruined the industry. Your management is passing the buck!
Furthermore, you should strike! Mesa can't handle any more capacity per JO's last conference call.
Strike...Mesa won't take your business. Let's see if you have any balls.

 

[pljenkins]

1900, That all sounds great on paper and without all the facts.

This is the problem. With US Airways in BK and America West on the verge, there is no way Bush and Co. would have ever let Mesa strike. Without the strike threat, the Mesa pilots had zero leverage. Freedumb was growing 3 planes a month (replacing much of Mesa's flying in PHX) and, I know you don't want to believe it, but they had plenty of pilots to fly those planes. Most of them former Major guys on furlough who were promised a CA slot with a good seniority #. These guys aren't worried about killing there careers b/c they are already at or near the end of it. Trust me, I talked to a few of these idiots from US Airways and United.

Second, Had Mesa gone on strike, JO had a deal in place to lease all the U ERJ's and CRJ's to Midatlantic (his bud "Dave") He was then going to go after the United flying with Freedumb.

All the fools on this board think that things would be different if Mesa had held out and went on strike. Here's what would have happened:

1. Mesa would be gone.

2. Air Midwest was to be sold or shut down.

3. Freedumb would be growing and bidding for both the United flying and the US Airways flying.

4. ACA, Skywest and Air Wiskie would still have had to take concessions to compete with Freedumb, TSA and CHQ, who all have lower cost structures.

Everyone's anger should be at the pilots that went to Freedumb. Without them, Mesa would have had the leverage needed to push JO and get the fair contract they deserve. To bad everyone expresses there emotions on this board instead of there intellect. -Bean

Well, first thing, you bet your aft mast Dub-yuh would have let Mesa strike. There's a dozen regionals out there that would have eagerly and without delay snapped up the work Mesa would leave behind, so while Freedumb was busy trying to get the airplanes off Mesa's certificate someone else would have their airplanes in the paint shop (something Mesa seems reluctant to do on a good day)... In any event, in the current environment, the regional business is a tank of Pirhana. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that any work that's dangled out there won't be bid on by every airline that can do it and a fair number that can't.

You guys had the leverage, you just didn't have the intestinal fortitude to use it. Had you guys struck, I doubt that JO would have been able to spool up Freedumb in such a way that they could logically bid the work left behind, and even if he could, who's to say USAir would have taken the bait? After all, it's like trading a headache for a sore throat! Freedom is nothing more then Mesa v2.0.

There was no way for you guys to really win. JO tooled you guys with the CCAir/Freedom one two punch. It was a diversionary tactic! Everyone was so concerned with making Freedom go away that they lost sight of the big picture. JO's no idiot. He knew you guys would fixate on the Freedom issue and he used that to get what he wanted. Freedom was never meant to survive. Just to whipsaw the Mesa guys. Spend millions to save billions, simple economics. So, you all got dealt a crap hand and you got talked into playing it. Now you all lost. The Freedom guys who bought into the false hope of a new and different airline who's true purpose was to fall on its own sword when it was done doing its job on Mesa, the Mesa pilots who got scared into signing a contract they knew was rediculous and would blackball them to the rest of the industry, and the junior turboprop F/Os at Middy who will probably never see the working end of a Mesa jet in the next 4 years, provided they don't starve to death first.

Ya got talked into it, boys, and if everyone's attitude remains as it is at Mesa, it won't much matter in the long run. After all, United didn't put up with it the first time, you sure as heck can expect that they won't put up with it again.

P.

 

[350DRIVER]

I think it is absolutely hilarious that people get on here and try and accuse Mesa and attempt to "justify" why Mesa is to blame for all the problems that face the regionals present day. They did absolutely nothing other than stop Freedumb dead in its tracks and while the contract may not be a decent one they are still going to be around and job security will still be there for years to come.. Wake up folks, if you don't wanna fly for Mesa then the simple solution would be do NOT apply... I for one will be happy to wear a Mesa ID badge and would have absolutely no problem confronting pilots from other regionals who seem to place the blame solely on the Mesa pilot group for their own problems. We shall see what CHQ does and I would almost bet any amount of money that the group will give in and agree to some contract that is going to be somewhat comparable to Mesa. Then more blame will be place on Mesa, you don't like something then change it.


3 5 0

 

[bogberto]

Hey PL, there's one thing you missed: we were nowhere near a point where we could strike. Most of us wanted to, but the problem: we couldn't. Negotiations had not broken down or come to a stalemate.

Don't forget, we'd been watching the Cactus Crew get screwed in negotiations by Dougie Fresh for well over 2 years without having a chance to strike. I'm sure it was more than coincidence that we both voted on TAs at the same time...

And 350Driver, PLEASE tell me that you are trying to get on at other places before you come to Mesa.