SliceOfPIE
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Mesa--senority not required
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aviatrix
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And you know this how, altima? You knob. Many of those upgrading to Dash Capt. are UAL Jets for Jobs new-hires who more than qualify for the position. Those with less than Capt. upgrade requirements cannot bid Captain. The fact is there is so much growth that 2-month upgrades are a neccesity.
Like any other airline, there is an equipment lock, so while there are senior pilots on other equipment, they are unable to bid over to Dash captain. It would just be insanity at the explosive rate of growth Mesa is going through.
The majority of pilots recently hired at Mesa are NOT 200-hour San Juaners. There are plenty of furloughed major airline pilots who are happy to take the upgrade.
Like any other airline, there is an equipment lock, so while there are senior pilots on other equipment, they are unable to bid over to Dash captain. It would just be insanity at the explosive rate of growth Mesa is going through.
The majority of pilots recently hired at Mesa are NOT 200-hour San Juaners. There are plenty of furloughed major airline pilots who are happy to take the upgrade.
OneTuffGuy
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aviatrix correct me if I am wrong but what would a jet for jobs person be doing in a dash? Last time i checked the dash had props..... whos the knob now? no wait its mesa, i forgot things are so screwed up at mesa that they probally would stick j4j in a prop. wow your parents must be so proud you work for the most hated company in the industry.
O
Otto Coarsen
Actually....
J4J is a term used for the US Airways program which placed furloughed pilots on CRJs out of PHL only. The program in place with UAL is not technically J4J. The furloughed UAL folk (through 'a different kind of agreement)are offered the choice of jets or props. They start at a slightly higher payrate. Of the UAL guys who chose the Dash, one was a former Mesa Dash Captain. The others would rather either be guaranteed a west coast domicile, or prefer to make more money serving as captains.
As one of the 14, I will tell you that it is not a cakewalk. About half of the class is furloughed UAL. The rest have either military or 121 experience with the exception of one freight dog and one CFI. The CFI is going to be an FO as he does not hold an ATP. It is tough and we've already lost one...
As for the origional poster, this is not some uncommon or unheardof event. Many regionals have hired street captains at times. The fact is, that the reason Management has been forced to hire street captains is the lack of folks that are able to upgrade. There is a "training silo" that only permits Dash FOs to become Dash captains (in other words, Beech or Jet FOs can only upgrade on the beech or the jets) Everyone will eventually upgrade on the jet. This saves the company tons of cash on training costs by preventing a flow forward and backward from jets to props. At mesa when one upgrades to captain, we are held to an 18 month seat lock on the props and a 36 month seat lock on the jets... Because of this, many of the more senior FOs on the Dash are hanging tight for Jet captain slots to avoid the 18 month seat lock...
Hope this helps to explain the logic.
Oh and onetuffguy, regarding your comment to aviatrix: before you try to educate others, educate yourself.... The parents comment, give me a break... You my friend are a douche,,,
J4J is a term used for the US Airways program which placed furloughed pilots on CRJs out of PHL only. The program in place with UAL is not technically J4J. The furloughed UAL folk (through 'a different kind of agreement)are offered the choice of jets or props. They start at a slightly higher payrate. Of the UAL guys who chose the Dash, one was a former Mesa Dash Captain. The others would rather either be guaranteed a west coast domicile, or prefer to make more money serving as captains.
As one of the 14, I will tell you that it is not a cakewalk. About half of the class is furloughed UAL. The rest have either military or 121 experience with the exception of one freight dog and one CFI. The CFI is going to be an FO as he does not hold an ATP. It is tough and we've already lost one...
As for the origional poster, this is not some uncommon or unheardof event. Many regionals have hired street captains at times. The fact is, that the reason Management has been forced to hire street captains is the lack of folks that are able to upgrade. There is a "training silo" that only permits Dash FOs to become Dash captains (in other words, Beech or Jet FOs can only upgrade on the beech or the jets) Everyone will eventually upgrade on the jet. This saves the company tons of cash on training costs by preventing a flow forward and backward from jets to props. At mesa when one upgrades to captain, we are held to an 18 month seat lock on the props and a 36 month seat lock on the jets... Because of this, many of the more senior FOs on the Dash are hanging tight for Jet captain slots to avoid the 18 month seat lock...
Hope this helps to explain the logic.
Oh and onetuffguy, regarding your comment to aviatrix: before you try to educate others, educate yourself.... The parents comment, give me a break... You my friend are a douche,,,
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mesa rocks
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the new contract states that a pilot may only upgrade in his current equipment or an RJ.
There is also no transitioning FO to FO in other equipment.
We all know it sucks. There are plenty of fairly senior jet FOs, Beech FOs, and beech CAs that wouldn't mind sliding into the left seat of the Dash.
Like all the other **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty details in this contract, you can thank 90 or so Freedumb guys who thought it was more important for them to get into a 70 or 90 seat RJ rather than fight for a better contract for us all.
There is also no transitioning FO to FO in other equipment.
We all know it sucks. There are plenty of fairly senior jet FOs, Beech FOs, and beech CAs that wouldn't mind sliding into the left seat of the Dash.
Like all the other **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty details in this contract, you can thank 90 or so Freedumb guys who thought it was more important for them to get into a 70 or 90 seat RJ rather than fight for a better contract for us all.
Last edited:
Rottweiller
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ChinaClipper
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Aviatrix,
One Tuff Guy bent over is waiting to pounce on ANYTHING to do with YV. I wonder if he is "pitching" or "catching" in his avatar?...not that there is anything wrong with that. BTW all,the most hated airline part must be true!... so much that you'll never get hired EVER, by ANYONE!! Except for these friends of mine who have moved on from YV in the last year or so: 6 Frontier (including a VERY happy ME!) 6 Aloha, 5 Jetblue, 8 America West (aka Big Mesa) a boat load to WN before the hiring lapse, 7 AirTran, 5 ATA, 2 Alaska. Maybe we should all be a part of the most loved airline, like One Tuff Guylover's wholly-owned USAirways h ell. They are some of the NICEST people in the industry, smiling gate agents, happy crewmembers, masses of satisfies customers and a nurturing parent company. I guess the wholly-owned guys are expecting that SOMEDAY the shafting from on high will stop, I doubt it!
One Tuff Guy bent over is waiting to pounce on ANYTHING to do with YV. I wonder if he is "pitching" or "catching" in his avatar?...not that there is anything wrong with that. BTW all,the most hated airline part must be true!... so much that you'll never get hired EVER, by ANYONE!! Except for these friends of mine who have moved on from YV in the last year or so: 6 Frontier (including a VERY happy ME!) 6 Aloha, 5 Jetblue, 8 America West (aka Big Mesa) a boat load to WN before the hiring lapse, 7 AirTran, 5 ATA, 2 Alaska. Maybe we should all be a part of the most loved airline, like One Tuff Guylover's wholly-owned USAirways h ell. They are some of the NICEST people in the industry, smiling gate agents, happy crewmembers, masses of satisfies customers and a nurturing parent company. I guess the wholly-owned guys are expecting that SOMEDAY the shafting from on high will stop, I doubt it!
English
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mesa rocks
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ChinaClipper
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Also....
The previous comments were not ment to change the fact that 77% plus of my previous brethren made a HUGE mistake by ratifying that POS contract. A huge chunk of the blame for that could best be placed on the MEC, Negotiating Comitte and the ALPA infrastructure as practiced @ YV. They "enabled" the fear campaign engineered by Johhny Lorenzornstein, hook, line and sinker. Bad leadership isn't a complete excuse, ya still shoulda voted "NO." One can only look to CHQ and Mesaba for proof that ALPA "leadership" @ YV sold out the masses for personal enrichment etc. Vote the S.O.B.'s out this spring, Zippy the Chimp coulda done a better job.... BTW, ALG and PDT et al may soon be on Mesa's senority list, the more vocal wholly-owned Mesa bashers may wanna tone it down a bit, makes an otherwise good group of guys look bad to the uninitiated...PS
The previous comments were not ment to change the fact that 77% plus of my previous brethren made a HUGE mistake by ratifying that POS contract. A huge chunk of the blame for that could best be placed on the MEC, Negotiating Comitte and the ALPA infrastructure as practiced @ YV. They "enabled" the fear campaign engineered by Johhny Lorenzornstein, hook, line and sinker. Bad leadership isn't a complete excuse, ya still shoulda voted "NO." One can only look to CHQ and Mesaba for proof that ALPA "leadership" @ YV sold out the masses for personal enrichment etc. Vote the S.O.B.'s out this spring, Zippy the Chimp coulda done a better job.... BTW, ALG and PDT et al may soon be on Mesa's senority list, the more vocal wholly-owned Mesa bashers may wanna tone it down a bit, makes an otherwise good group of guys look bad to the uninitiated...PS
RIDETHELIGHTING
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Hey im one of the 14 also, the United guys in this class are some of the nicest guys around. And Rottweiler, CRM with any of these guys would be incredible compared to someone with your attitude (CRM is a group thing -you were probably the chump in back sleepin that day of ground school). Tiny minds? You are a dork.
SneakyJake
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The same thing is going on over at Island Air. They are hiring a bunch of pilots for an expansion and I'm sure a lot of them will hold captain out of the gate because the current f.o.'s might not have enough time to upgrade. About being a 3 year Beech f.o. at Mesa, what ever. If you want to wait until you can hold jet captain in PHX then go right ahead, but not being able to get Dash captain isn't what is stunting your career or pay. The UAL guys are great and so far some of the nicest pilots I have met in the industry. I don't blame them for not wanting to be stuck in the right seat of a jet. The PIC time is worth ten times that if they need it later. Alaska hired 35 last year.
Rottweiller
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jea said:
So you are telling me that with all your "puddle jumper" time you have listed you went straight to Captain? Oh PLEEEEEESE!!
As for CRM, yes I am a big fan of that as I have had to fly in the past life with captains who told you "all these switches are mine don't touch a thing". As for the dork comment well, I'll let you call me that when you are fit to tie my shoe laces!
SliceOfPIE
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The whole point is that with over 1600 pilots, on an ALPO D.O.H. seniority list, someone who is junior should not occupy the left seat if there is someone senior--regardless of equipment --who would like that seat.
Just because Mesa's crap contract says so, doesnt make it right. If a pilot cant switch seats or equipment for pay, QOL, domicile, etc... then what ???
Just because Mesa's crap contract says so, doesnt make it right. If a pilot cant switch seats or equipment for pay, QOL, domicile, etc... then what ???
Ligeirinho
Missing the good'old time
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Ok this talking that there is no high time pilots at mesa is a lie I am on class of 01/12 and on my clas only 5 or 7 were from san juan program the rest of us like me for instance has more than 5000 hours 5 were from united and 2 from usair on jet for jobs program I personally asked to go to Dash 8 as I have 7500 hours and 3500 in jets but some mechanic that is the current manager for pilot training at MESA decided for me going to CRJ as an F/O and with that sucking salary that we all know.
Also the united guys will have a salary complement to star as 2 year pay rate paid by united.
All guys who got the captain seat on Dash were from united on the jet for pilots program so if you wanna complain complain with the ALPA that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed ourselves because this is their program.
Also they will be seat holding for 18 months till they are able to go to some other airplane.
Also the united guys will have a salary complement to star as 2 year pay rate paid by united.
All guys who got the captain seat on Dash were from united on the jet for pilots program so if you wanna complain complain with the ALPA that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed ourselves because this is their program.
Also they will be seat holding for 18 months till they are able to go to some other airplane.
Big Air
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In case anyone is interested, of the 15 who started the last Dash class, 2 are now out. And the orals are not over and none have gone to the sim yet. That is about a 15% washout rate.
Jea,
I am sitting here laughing my ass off. I think your "Aircraft Flown: not as many as rott" is pretty fircken funny.
Jea,
I am sitting here laughing my ass off. I think your "Aircraft Flown: not as many as rott" is pretty fircken funny.
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