Mesa pilots busted for booze

[ILS JNKY]

keep boozing

well, another one bites the dust or hits the bottle.

you young kids keep on drinking and pissing a way your jobs , and an older person such as my self will just keep bilding my time.

well got to flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Timebuilder]

I recall a thread a while back, just after a pilot violated a TFR, where I pointed out that these times require extra vigilance, even beyond the letter of the regulations.

I think we have arrived at a similar situation regarding use of alcohol. While it may be 100% within the regs to have a beer with dinner the night before a 6 AM call, I have to think that it would be unwise in the current climate.

This could lead to that situation where the passenger claims to have seen you drinking, asks if you are sober, yadda, yadda.

If it's a non-issue, why not just bypass the risk to your job, and join me in a ginger ale? Certainly, there is enough time off on most schedules to allow for the need of a designated driver, should one have the urge to get hammered.

 

[JohnDoe]

I agree with most everybody else on this thread.....If you need a breath analyzer to determine whether you are legal or not, you need to find a new profession. I can't believe it was even discussed.
Like we don't have enough problems in this industry right now.......go and add these drunk idiots showing up for work (all of them, not just the Mesa).

 

[Dieterly]

Flip,

If I have a beer 10:15 hours before I report for duty, then I assume I can stay in the "buisness", is that correct?

Bottom line, is that some of us can handle A beer 9 hours before duty, just like some of us can handle transition from round dial to glass cockpit without any problems, while others can't.

 

[RightBettor]

On the issue of purchasing a breathalyzer for your overnight bag:

Has anyone considered how utterly ridiculous this would be? Imagine you are going through the security screening checkpoint and the screener decides to take a close look at that strange device in your bag. The super-professional federalized screener holds up a breathalyzer and asks, "WHAT'S THIS?!?!" (No doubt the screener will not use an ounce of discretion with respect to his/her tone and volume.) Now you get to explain, in full view of the public, what the suspect device is and why you have it in your bag. Oh goody!! Now that's going to instill even more confidence from the flying public... the same public who undoubtedly suspects all airline pilots are a bunch of drunken bums.

If you're on a layover and want to have a couple of beers with dinner... fine... as long as you use good judgement. If your company says 12 hours, then cutoff at a 12 hours. If your only guideline is the 8-hour-rule, then go with a more conservative approach. Stop at one beer. You're going to metabolize one beer in about 1 to 1.5 hours, so you'll be perfectly legal in 8 hours! If you cannot stop at one or use good judgment with respect to consumption, then it's time to get help. Most companies will bend over backwards for you if you volutarily seek help through the EAP or the union.

Let's get our shi+ together here gang!! We don't need anymore of this. Okay, who's next on the soapbox?

Respectfully,

RightBettor

 

[350DRIVER]

God forbid the general public gets onto this site and reads this thread- Buy a breathalyzer test unit.???- If you are stupid enough to do this then I would seriously doubt where your "best" interests are and I would not want to share the same cockpit with you- DON'T drink while you are working period (very simple and solves ALL problems)- IF you cannot wait till you are off of a trip to drink and get hammered then you probably should not be in the cockpit in the first place and should contemplate seeking professional help (food 4 thought)

Mesa appears to have a very sharp group of pilots so I am assuming these pilots wanted an "out" and wanted a quick way to change careers and shouldn't reflect Mesa as a whole, I can't see any other reason why they would "attempt" to take a chance in light of the recent events........

C H E E R S

3 5 0

 

[Jeff G]

CA1900,

It's not armchair psychology to point out that having a beer past 9pm with a 6am show time is cutting it awfully fine, legal or not. So you like to have a beer with dinner. Sure, that's great to have a discretionary adult beverage; it's your right to do so. That doesn't make it all that smart. For one thing, alcohol makes it more difficult to get quality sleep, regardless of its other effects, which makes it a really bad idea when you're not getting all that much sleep to begin with. Fatigue is as bad or worse than alcohol and its effects get *worse* as your day progresses. So again, if you insist on your right to imbibe a CNS depressant close to the cutoff, nobody can stop you. But, as a professional, I'd hope you would hold yourself to a higher standard than the minimum. Eagleflip is right on.

 

[CA1900]

... IF you cannot wait till you are off of a trip to drink and get hammered then you probably should not be in the cockpit in the first place and should contemplate seeking professional help (food 4 thought)

I'm not going to rehash my previous post, but having a drink doesn't mean "getting hammered." If you see them as one and the same, then maybe YOU are the one who should seek professional help.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Wait a minute, let me get this straight...

Are people actually suggesting we not drink beer on a layover?


Maybe I don't want to go back after all!



FDJ
(Likes to kid around, but has a very strict personal policy)

P.S.
For those who would answer my post with self-righteous drivel, may I offer a "bite me" in advance.

 

[eaglefly]

Having a few drinks, a good meal and lively conversation on a layover is perfectly acceptable. The real question is - Do you consider yourself a responsible and mature adult ? If so, this argument is pointless.

If you're a twenty-something idiot who looks forward to layovers as an opportunity to get **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**faced and hopefully laid, than do the industry a favor - get therepy or resign.

There are 4 pilots in the last month or so who probably wish they had done the former.

 

[KingAirer]

I dont have a problem not drinking before any flight. i have a 12 hr personal policy, but thats me. My suggestion about the breathalizer is not something i keep in my flight bag, i dont need it. But paint this picture, these MEsa pilots go out and order a mixed drink within a legal time frame. They wake up the next morning and know they SHOUld be ok because its been X of hours. If they had a breathalizer they could have checked and sseen that there was more in that drink then they thought and could have seen that they had no option but to call in sick.

I have no problem NOT drinking. But over a 30 year carreer im sure some of you may have a drink on an extended layover and would like to double and triple check to make sure ur ok with a breathlizer before one of the srubby secuirty ppl do!

 

[dmspilot00]

If you're a twenty-something idiot who looks forward to layovers as an opportunity to get **CENSORED**faced and hopefully laid, than do the industry a favor - get therepy or resign.

HEY!!

Don't stereotype. I am one of the twenty-somethings and I have never been drunk in my entire life. How old were the pilots at America West? That's right, they were in the FORTIES! (I think?)

I have the same opinion as you do...I do not want to put up with a bunch of drunks during my future layovers when I am a professional pilot (keyword: PROFESSIONAL!!!!).

 

[rumpletumbler]

What I'm wondering in all this is how many part 91 folks are out there clogging around drunk. Going to Treasure Cay for a week. Yeeeeehaaaaaaaaaa. Jump in the Lear and head out. Next day wander over to the general store and pick up a bottle of 151 Rum for $5. Whatta baaaaaaagin! After a couple hours the boss calls and something has come up. Gotta get home now. How many of those folks do the flight instead of doing the right thing? There is no policing that until your looking at body parts.

RT

 

[surplus1]

Re: terminal stupidity

The disease here is not alcohol, it is stupidity.

I think you hit the nail on the head!

Carry a breathalizer? Not a good idea. Follow the rules and you don't need it.

Consider this. There are two parts to the FAR. One part says you're legally "intoxicated" and in violation if you test at .04 or more. The other part says you must be removed from service by the airline if you test at .02, for (I think) eight hours.

Most breathalizers (including those used by the police and the testing services) are incapable of accurately measuring .02 consistently. But the rule still applies.

Most breathalizers (including, etc. as above) have to be perfectly calibrated and tested within a relatively short time of use to measure .04 accurately. Accuracy at these levels is highly questionable. You might convince a judge of that. Try convincing the FAA or your company. They won't buy it. If you test positive at any level, you almost certainly have violated the company rules, if not the FAR.

Your "private" breathalizer (even if you're not smart enough to realize you should NOT carry it) is no guarantee of anything.

Fighting in court after the fact, you might win on those technical counts. HOWEVER, your airline would be crazy to keep you employed once this has "gone public".

So, given all these things, stay out of the stupidity zone.

I'm not a beer drinker but I love a glass of good wine with dinner. That's just too bad. I happen to love flying more, so my wine drinking has to wait until I'm off, period. No ifs, buts or anything else.

Most airlines have a 12-hour rule, therefore FAA's 8-hour rule is irrelevant. You don't work for the FAA, you work for the airline. They pay you to follow their rules and you agreed to do that when you took the job.

Most "regional" airlines, have very few layovers that exceed 12 hours "in the hotel". You can't include the hour between when you report for duty and when you fly or the 15 - 20 minutes after you land until you are "officially off duty". That means you need and absolute minimum of 13:15 "off duty" to be able to have any alcohol at all, regardless of what you "blow".

That basically means there are very few layovers (regional or major) during which you can consume ANY alcohol at all. What you "blow" has nothing to do with it. You just can't do this job and drink on layovers in the majority of cases.

After you get "home" ..... how long will it be before your next report time? Again, remember your company's policy = 12 hours with ZERO consumption, regardless of what you "blow".

Make up your mind. Either you want to fly or you want to drink. The two just don't go together. Bottom line: If you can't or won't give up the drinking, then get a real job and leave the airline flying for the rest of us.

Please STOP tying to figure out ways to get around the rule. I really don't care what you do with your life, but I don't want your black marks or bad habits damaging MY life or my profession! Comply with the rules or get out. It's that simple.

If you happen to be flying with someone who won't follow the rules, then tell that person to either comply or you will not go with him/her. Don't ruin your career to protect someone that deliberately breaks the rules. You can be tolerant about a lot of things. Alcohol consumption or drug use are not among them.

If ANYONE suggests that you were drinking (no matter how "funny" they may think it is), then DO NOT operate the aircraft until you have been tested and officially cleared.

If you are airborne when the "funny" makes the "joke", it ain't funny. What would you do if that person made a "joke" about highjacking your airplane? Well, do the same thing if they make a "joke" about you dirinking. Land the thing and get them OFF it now. Get tested before you proceed. Keep your job, keep your career and protect OUR profession.

There can be NO TOLERANCE level for this except ZERO.

 

[WileE]

Here's the mercenary cynic in me...

The mercenary cynic in me says that as long as you are above me on the seniority list, drink all you want, whenever you want! That's one step closer to upgrade!

 

[bssthound]

I, personally, don't drink from signin until signout. I seriously doubt any words of wisdom on this thread, and there have been many, will change any casual drinking customs.

If you are still willing to push the envelope with all the media scrutiny and overzealous security screeners you're asking for trouble. These are the very impressionable folks who give Jerry Springer and his ilk such high ratings. Remember, when you come through screening in a pilot uniform you're a target. With the recent media attention almost all of those screeners will be looking for a "drunk pilot." It ain't gonna be me.

 

[emb1452002]

None

I don't have room in my flight bag for a breathalizer........2 bottles of vodka take up all the room! heeeheee haaahaaa!!
This sight cracks me up.