Mesa now bunks together on cont duty

[Soverytired]

Not to beat a dead horse, but:

1. The 1 (ONE) hotel room "policy" shared by 4 mixed gender crewmembers has been in place for at least 4 months. It certainly pre-dated the TV story by at least 2 months.

2. The 1 (ONE) hotel room policy was driven by legal issues, not company concern for properly rested crews. Issues like:

• Continuous use APU noise complaints in smaller airports (ex: MRY)
• Unattended crews in a secure ramp area w/o proper SIDA badges (everywhere)
• The hotel room is really a "crew room" away from the airport

3. The 1 (ONE) crew room acts as a subtle pressure to not call fatigued. ("didn't you get a hotel room?")


News story didn't change squat. All (!) crews are still sleeping on the airplane, because nobody wants to share a hotel room with 3 strangers, and you get more rest sleeping on the plane anyway (at least 1.5 hrs more).

And really, with one bed, one desk chair, and one (sometimes) comfy chair, who wants to go play "musical chairs" (last one doesn't get a chair, remember) with a bunch of strangers anyway?

 

[lowlycfi]

Not to beat a dead horse, but:

1. The 1 (ONE) hotel room "policy" shared by 4 mixed gender crewmembers has been in place for at least 4 months. It certainly pre-dated the TV story by at least 2 months.

2. The 1 (ONE) hotel room policy was driven by legal issues, not company concern for properly rested crews. Issues like:

• Continuous use APU noise complaints in smaller airports (ex: MRY)
• Unattended crews in a secure ramp area w/o proper SIDA badges (everywhere)
• The hotel room is really a "crew room" away from the airport

3. The 1 (ONE) crew room acts as a subtle pressure to not call fatigued. ("didn't you get a hotel room?")


News story didn't change squat. All (!) crews are still sleeping on the airplane, because nobody wants to share a hotel room with 3 strangers, and you get more rest sleeping on the plane anyway (at least 1.5 hrs more).

And really, with one bed, one desk chair, and one (sometimes) comfy chair, who wants to go play "musical chairs" (last one doesn't get a chair, remember) with a bunch of strangers anyway?

Don't bother with facts on this site. Nobody wants to hear it. I've just started telling people that we never get our own room on an overnight, no matter how long it is.

 

[Captainjerky]

Standups

You know, somebody earlier in this thread posted what this should all be about anyway- Standups are bad. They're unsafe, ill-advised scheduling practices and I can only assume their sole purpose is to save the airlines some money from not overnighting 2 crews.
I wish the unions themselves (ALPA, wheovever, I don't care) would create more of an uproar about this. In our era of "schedule with safety", as the ALPA stickers say, why isn't there a fight so simply do away with them completely?
The companies won't do it until the FAA weighs in, so I guess all we can do is write our elected representatives and hope that this article about people sleeping in planes overnight grabs enough attention to do some good.
I've had some misadventures in the wake of 3 hours of sleep, including damaging my car in the employee lot because I wasn't coherent enough to see the sand-filled parking barrel by my car- I just hope we don't have to wait until something horrible happens before there's a public outcry, but that's probably what it will take.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't understand where this CDOs are unsafe stuff comes from. Ever hear of UPS and FedEx? Their duty day is just about the same as a typical CDO. Flying the backside of the clock isn't unsafe as long as sufficient work-rules are in place.

 

[Captainjerky]

I don't understand where this CDOs are unsafe stuff comes from. Ever hear of UPS and FedEx? Their duty day is just about the same as a typical CDO. Flying the backside of the clock isn't unsafe as long as sufficient work-rules are in place.

I'm not talking about night freight- that's a way of life and your schedule stays (roughly) the same. You fly at night and sleep during the day, like a 3rd shift employee.
I'm talking about you getting 3 hours of sleep overnight. But you can't magically will yourself to sleep before that in order to be properly rested- you probably woke up at 8 am or something like that. So, instead of getting a proper nights' rest, you get less than half that, then go fly an expensive plane with strangers entrusting you with their lives. That's why standups are bad.

 

[rickair7777]

"ROTFLMAO" as in "Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off"
????
I don't quite understand why this is a laughing matter to you. Your company only provides a single room for the entire crew on short CDO breaks and this has you laughing why???

And what floor are you rolling on, is it the cabin floor?

I was laughing at what appeared to be some clown quoting the mesa contract... as though it has any meaning over there. Looks like it was actually the QX contract though.

And I don't work at mesa anymore, but thanks anyway.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not talking about night freight- that's a way of life and your schedule stays (roughly) the same. You fly at night and sleep during the day, like a 3rd shift employee.
I'm talking about you getting 3 hours of sleep overnight. But you can't magically will yourself to sleep before that in order to be properly rested- you probably woke up at 8 am or something like that. So, instead of getting a proper nights' rest, you get less than half that, then go fly an expensive plane with strangers entrusting you with their lives. That's why standups are bad.

I still don't see the problem. When I do CDOs, I do just as the cargo guys do: I sleep about 6 hours during the day in the crashpad and get a little nap in during the CDO layover in the hotel. As long as you are flying CDOs consistently and not jumping back and forth between day flying and night flying, then it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[densoo]

The only way the FAA will adjust rest requirements based on circadium rythym rather than a straight 16 hours duty is for there to be an accident attributed to fatigue and for the public to know about it.

The "Whitlow ruling" came out of the AA Little Rock accident where the NTSB found the long duty day as a causal factor. Consequently, the FAA finally "interpreted" an already clear cut law allowing no more than 16 hours of continuous duty. Before the accident, the airlines said this was 16 hours "scheduled" but it could be exceeded if it wasn't "scheduled." So delays of any kind could, and often did, take the pilot past 16 hours. Not a peep from the FAA until the Little Rock accident. Now, 16 hours is a drop dead time. You cannot operate beyond that.

While the NTSB hasn't released their report on this, if the NTSB finds that the Comair Flight 5191 accident of Aug. 27 in Lexington has as a causal factor fatigue caused by a continual disruption of circadium rythym, perhaps there may be some progress made on changing this outrageous assumption that 4 hours of sit time from noon to 4pm is the same as 4 hours of sit time from midnight to 4am.

It isn't. Everyone knows it isn't but it won't change until the outrage affects the stock value of a company. Then the CEOs will listen. Then the FAA will always do what is politically expedient when the pressure reaches the highest levels. Remember, bad people had been busting into cockpits for decades, but it wasn't until 9/11 that we got hardened doors.

 

[Guitar Guy]

As long as you are flying CDOs consistently and not jumping back and forth between day flying and night flying, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Unfortunately, not all carriers build CDO-only lines. With the regional I was at, there were usually a good number of regular lines each month in the bid packet with a CDO tacked on to the end of a trip. So in that case, one could go from flying days to a quick CDO or standup. And it was never fun or sometimes even possible to get much of a nap on the during the break period.

 

[601Pilot]

I still don't see the problem. When I do CDOs, I do just as the cargo guys do: I sleep about 6 hours during the day in the crashpad and get a little nap in during the CDO layover in the hotel. As long as you are flying CDOs consistently and not jumping back and forth between day flying and night flying, then it shouldn't be a problem.

I agree; CDO-only lines are relatively easy (unless weather or mechanical delays - normal at ASA). You just have to get on schedule and stay on it. For those on reserve or if you get stuck with one, then you have a greater challenge sleepwise. I have had to sleep on the airplane during a CDO, but normally that doesn't happen.

 

[PCL_128]

Unfortunately, not all carriers build CDO-only lines. With the regional I was at, there were usually a good number of regular lines each month in the bid packet with a CDO tacked on to the end of a trip. So in that case, one could go from flying days to a quick CDO or standup. And it was never fun or sometimes even possible to get much of a nap on the during the break period.

I agree that this is certainly a problem. Unfortunately, we do these mixed lines at PCL. I do them all the time, and they are certainly dangerous. That's why we're pushing for pure CDO lines in the next contract. We're sticking to that demand because we consider it a safety issue.

 

[taildragerpilot]

Who wants to bet Mesa pilots will see a rise in sexual harrassment lawsuits, divorce filings, pregnancies, and a push for the legalization of same-sex marriage?

that was good

 

[Soverytired]

Who wants to bet Mesa pilots will see a rise in sexual harrassment lawsuits, divorce filings, pregnancies, and a push for the legalization of same-sex marriage?

Actually, considering the widespread industry attitude that flight attendants are "flying mattresses" (and kleenex-es), I'm pretty surprised there are A LOT more sexual harrassment lawsuits, divorce filings, and "pilot errors" already.

Guess the "no-morals, anything goes w/o consequences" youth of today pretty much works in the pilots favor.

 

[jackson]

I think they orginally wanted tents

they are sooo cutting edge

 

[JettBoii]

Are you serious?