Mesa must be stopped

[DDpaysoff]

Mesa who!

They are obviously not that big of a problem, I still don't recall ever seeing them. They can fly from Albequerque to Boise anyday. I do remember one of their check airmen kissing my ace on the hotel van one day, trying to get me over there. Onetuff guy, I wholeheartedly agree w/ you. However, everybody is stealing everybody's flying right now and everybody is getting some of their flying stolen right now. MGMT. has finally caught up. I will tell you this right now, and I hope you remember.........They will get what is coming to them. Just remember, there is always some lowlife who wants to be sitting in your warm seat. However, your picture is the Shizznit. And if they ever try to sit in my jumpseat, they will have to replace a crewmember for getting ill at the last moment. When I am cpt., the flight will go out on time w/o scab. You can talk shi%^ all day, but until you take a stand in real life you are just hiding behind a computer screen.

 

[stillaboo]

And if they ever try to sit in my jumpseat, they will have to replace a crewmember for getting ill at the last moment. When I am cpt., the flight will go out on time w/o scab. You can talk shi%^ all day, but until you take a stand in real life you are just hiding behind a computer screen.

Are you saying I'm talking "sh%^"? I don't get it. I agree with you, I think Mesa HAS bit off more than they can chew, and will ultimately kill themselves with growth (who woulda' thunk it?).

But if a Mesa guy wants to ride with you, you'll call in sick? And once you're a captain you'll call them 'scabs'?

Please do not label people as scabs unless they are. The word scab is not something we professionals use lightly. I'd hesitate even calling Freedom and Republic guys scabs.

Pilots need to work together. Refusing a jumpseat to a pilot b/c he might have once voted for a contract that gave him a smaller raise then you think he should have deserved . . . I hope you can see how rediculous this is.

The jumpseat is not a weapon! Use it as one and you will undermine much more than anything you might think Mesa has done in your wildest dreams.

We all need to work together to achieve small gains in the industry, like TSA refusing concessions to Mesa's wage level. Follow their lead. Many small gains over time will be much more effective in achieving a better lifestyle for all pilots than argueing about who screwed who while managment wage collusion slowly undermines us all.

-Boo!

 

[Dieterly]

Commuter pukes...

Six years ago I left the commuters, guess things hasn't changed a bit...

By the way, how come you are not knocking Commuters like ASA, ACA, or Comair when they are takin over mainline flying for a fraction of pay/benefits compared to DL?

 

[jetdriven]

Hey Jetdriven

With comments like that you are no different than these greedy CEO's that are running this countrys airlines into the ground.

Enjoy the growth while you have it because one day it will come crashing down around you and the rest of the pilot industry will be laughing with ZERO sympathy at your pathetic asses over at Mesa for the hole you've dug for yourselves. I just hope it happens sooner than later. Free economy - my ass! More like a cancer ... you mesa guys are screwing the rest of us in the back.

that's a pretty broad brush you paint with. But a typical idiotic coment from an Air Whiskey guy. I hear something ringing....Oh wait.., it is your wakeup call.

You "sellout"! You guys took concessions! You guys were gonna shut the focker down"?? Right??

 

[zkmayo]

Boo:

While you make some good points, I have to say that I am one ACA pilot who will never work at Mesa. And i know Im not alone. Your right though; Mesa pilots will be better paid than ACA's soon, only bc alot of us are going to be furloughed with a 100% pay cut. I dont hold their pilots at fault, I hold their management, Bain and UAL for the sorry state of affairs ACA is in right now. And now, UAL has signed TSA to a 10 yr deal, basically phasing out or at best severly limiting ACA's future in the UAX program.

UAL has made their bed with several of the bottom regionals (nothing against the pilots who work there). It appears that the "Portfolio" of regionals mentality is alive and well at the new UAL that the fellow in charge of UAX brought over from USExp and learned from the Comair strike. I do feel sorry for the deplorable work conditions Mesa/TSA work under though (bad pay, RSV guar 8 days off /mo). I just hope UAL is ready to reap what they sew. How quickly history is forgotten; UAL dumped Mesa in 97 and TSA about 1999.

I only hold out hope that ACA has an ace up the sleeve ( and also that JB,AT, or ATA come calling) and that this UAL wakeup call has happened now instead of when/if they liquidate (hope they dont for the sake of all those involved). ACA's heavy reliance on UAL for revenue has been the co's achilles heel for a long time.

 

[T-handle]

IGNORANCE MUST BE STOPPED!

Is it me or does every ALPA pilot hold every other pilot group up to a high standard? It's like if we don't get a "industry leading" contract you guys take a sh!t on us and threaten to deny jumpseats and disrupt someone's basic privelege to commute to/from work. And no I don't work for Mesa. I work for MesaBA. We've been in talks for over 2 years. If we don't "meet" or "raise the bar", are you going to come on here to flame every Mesaba pilot and deny jumpseats? To folks you don't even know? If our contract doesn't meet YOUR standards, that's your problem. It's OUR contract. We have our goals.

Look at XJ's situation. Saab retirements, NWA replacing our Saabs with Pinnacle CRJs. Hell, NWA is replacing their OWN flying with Pinnacle CRJs. Does that mean every XJ and NWA pilot should ban every 9E pilot cuz they're overlapping the same cities we fly to? And I could claim they have a substandard contract to go along with that but I won't. It's not their fault. Look at from a furloughed mainline's pilot point of view. Everyone is bickering and whining that the other company got more RJs than we did. Well boo f-n hoo! More RJs= less jobs for us at the mainline level. Don't be surprised to see 50% of U.S domestic flying done by some type of RJ. 50%! or even more. by 2020, there wil be nearly 8000 RJs flying worldwide. And we will be the who.res. So work on your leg stretches cuz there's going to be some serious bending over to do during the next 10 years.

It's all politics and it runs even at the ALPA level. ALPA doesn't really give a flying funk about "regional pilots." I didn't get into this business for ALPA. I didn't even know who the funk they were til I got on with Mesaba. I pay my dues, back my MEC/LEC 100% and will strike if voted for, but I could care less about ALPA or work when I'm off duty. ALPA, APA, SWAPA, etc. I have friends at Skywest (non-ALPA), but I don't give them sh!t for not being "on our side." People are in this business for their own reasons. And frankly, they don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about your opinion of them.

Why do you think mainline pilots call RJs: Replacement Jets. We work for peanuts, even Comair with their leading contract still works for a fraction of what a mainline pilot would fly it for. It's a vicious economic cycle and Deregulation is to blame for our current situation. Hell, blame free enterprise for that matter. The lowest bidder will always have their way, unfortunately.

Careful what you wish for... you just might get it.

 

[stillaboo]

Re: IGNORANCE MUST BE STOPPED!

If we don't "meet" or "raise the bar", are you going to come on here to flame every Mesaba pilot and deny jumpseats?

Don't be silly . . . of course we will!

Look at XJ's situation. Saab retirements, NWA replacing our Saabs with Pinnacle CRJs. Hell, NWA is replacing their OWN flying with Pinnacle CRJs.

Look at Mesa's situation. 1900 retirements, HP replacing thier CRJ-200's with Freedom CRJ-700's. Hell, HP is replacing their OWN flying with Freedom CRJs.

Do I need to go any further for you to see what the mighty gods of the internet will think of your new contract?

Good luck with the negotiations, Mesaba. If you guys get a small raise, then you've done yourselves and the industry more good than any of this infighting ever has.

-Boo!

 

[jobear]

Fingered by fate

I try not to get involved in the finger pointing thing it's not my way, having said that I know that not matter how bad the industry gets I can and will find work outside aviation. I have two items that can not and will not be impinged upon by something as trivial as my JOB.
We as pilots have to have fisrt and foremost Principles; I can't work for someone I cannot respect. I will not work for someone who knowlingly is screwing over other pilots under the guise of it's just business call it skewed Morals or something. If you work for someone you don't like f_ck em quit, don't whine about money or the cost of getting there if you arrive only to realize you can't smile when you look back on your life.

If you or I do these things we wouldn't point our fingers and say he/she took my job.If you refuse to work for these people they would eventually wither on the vine. No recreminations. No one made you interview there did they?

Jobear
Rant Over

 

[Dieterly]

T-Handle,

How come there are only a few commuter guys that are able to see what's really going on? MESA is not the problem, you ALL are the problem!!!

 

[stillaboo]

you ALL are the problem!!!

Perhaps we lack good leadership, 'Dieterly'?

I think it should say " we ALL are the problem!!!". As long as those on the top of the heap divide the group (mainline and regional, or any other divisor you want to use), the bottom will continue to sink further.

We are all professional pilots.
-Boo!

 

[Dieterly]

I think you have a point, again, not many commuter scum see where the real problem is, they keep blaming MESA, but I guess that what happens when you hire a bunch of 1000 hour "Chuck Yeagers".

Dieterly,
(former commuter pilot)

 

[Ralph]

Dieterly...

You will never get a good answer because there isn't one. Everyone of of these commuter guys took a low paying airline job. No retirement, low pay, lousy work rules; compared to the major airlines. Now they are mad becuase someone else did the same thing to them.

There is no good answer, the system stinks; its not Mesa's fault, the bar started dropping a long time ago. Mesa is just the next stop!

 

[stillaboo]

Check out what Skyway just negotiatied:

a 7% paycut (and other workrule reductions) over 5 years.

From their press release:
"With jet captains paid $32,000 to $45,000 per year . . . more than half the group makes less than $20,000 per year."

The MEC is "pleased".
------

I reiterate that mainline must support regionals in this fight. After all the regionlas take cuts, who do you think is next?

Please, all the talk of 'all you regionals deserve each other' only serves to strengthen the divide in what should be a unified pilot group. Perhaps you aren't aware that these $32K Skyway pilots are easily skilled enough to replace a 76 driver or whatever.

Ralph, you don't even fly 121 yet and you're dividing the group into mainline and regional. You are part of the group too. As a future ALPA member, you will benefit from our actions, hopefully.

Support the regionals, help them fight the good fight, or you'll be next!

-Boo!

 

[mesaba2425]

Wow T-Handle!!!! You make some very good points. Excellent post my friend.

 

[T-Gates]

T-Handle, Excellent post....

It sucks for all of us in the NWA "family" to have an Avro, CRJ, and DC-9 serving every outstation. I don't think we should be taking over anyone's flying. I don't want to be a career regional pilot. One day I want to be in that DC-9. Anyone who honestly thinks that any one pilot group WANTS to take over mainline/other regional flying is living in a dream world. That is just the view of a few twisted individuals.

--03M

 

[avrodriverj85]

T-Handle, Excellent post....

One day I want to be in that DC-9.
--03M

Yuck !!

 

[avrodriverj85]

T-Handle, Excellent post....

One day I want to be in that DC-9.
--03M

Yuck !!

 

[T-Gates]

Yuck !!

Hey..... for no other reason than the pay is right!


--03M

 

[Skull-One]

The biggest problem in our industry is the "It doesn't affect me so it doesn't matter" syndrome. Some (most) days this industry feels like a brotherhood, but other times it feels like the biggest collection of backstabbing weasels who ever set foot on the planet! You should see my private mail messages (that I no longer read) lately! If I had a nickel for every time some anonymous yahoo threatened my career I wouldn't need a job!

I'm getting off the point....

Company "A" doesn't care if it signs a lowball contract and screws Company "B," and Companies "B" and "C" don't help Company "A" when it's their turn to negotiate. I don't know how it can be done, but the unions for all airlines need to cooperate more if this "pit one against the other" game is going to end. In the end, it may not matter, however. If a group wants to be intimidated into the ground there isn't much any of us can do to stop it.