Mesa LAX Blunder...Freedumb/ALPA Angle??

[ChinaClipper]

I have been reading a lot about this event, damned scary if ya ask me. Much talk about the dufus PIC, a Freedumb A lister.........what goes around comes around. I wonder if this guy will be seeking all the ALPA resources to keep his arse outta trouble? Begs the question; Why should ALPA lift ONE finger to help a clown out like this? Amazing that the Freedummies are able to help themselves at others expense, most claiming ALPA wasn't "necessary". I wonder if they plan on using there own resources to get outta this mess? Ya think JohnnY " Low buck" Ornstein will go easy on one of his golden boys? Be ineteresting to see how it all pans out.BTW What was the FO doing letting a Freedumb guy go un monitored??? Lesson there.........

 

[PCL_128]

Are you sure it was a Freedumb SCAB? I haven't seen a name listed in the articles yet, so I'm not able to check the list.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Freedom pilots were not scabs, just so's ya know.

 

[PCL_128]

This message is hidden because 100LL... Again! is on your ignore list.</SPAN>

 

[Turtlesfly]

Hey, I know that dumb stuff happens out there - but not knowing where the runway is at LAX is pretty bad.

I know that parallel comes up fast, but didn't all those hold short markings, the big red paint by the centerline, the red signs, the wig-wag lights on the side and the alternating lights in the pavement maybe give some clue that there was a runway over there? Great approach briefing about clearing the runway, by the way.

Sorry, I know that didn't really address the issue of ALPA, but with all the help that ALPA has done with the FAA over runway incursion safety, it would be an odd sort of overlook to really defend these pilots too hard.

Hey, if you want something funny, check out Google Earth, and zoom down on LAX really close and when you scroll across the runway 25L you'll see like 4 airplanes either on the runway or clearing -- definately a paste-copy deal from multiple images. Or else a big Mesa convention.

Just kidding.

 

[A350]

How many Freedom A-listers have stalled a CRJ at altitude?

Freedom A listers are not scabs. They just took an available job, much like all the regional pilots who took jobs that used to belong to other mainline pilots.

Pot, meet kettle.

And as for the other crap, you bet he will get ALPA representation...because the Freedom guys are ALPA. If you don't like it, tell the BOD. I am sure they will listen.

A350

 

[Cheeta]

As of this mornng neither the Capt or FO have talked to MAG ALPA MEC Reps.

 

[Soverytired]

Hindsight is 20/20, stupid shizit happens all the time when no one is watching, humans make mistakes. Go to the NTSB site and do a query for Part 121 carriers/accidents to see some doozies that happened at YOUR airline.

Thank goodness no one got hurt.

Nobody has all the details, and remember . . .the PRESS DOSEN'T KNOW JACK when it comes to reporting anything aviation. MAYBE this is the first aviation story a news orginization has gotten the facts correct in the last 50 years, but I seriously doubt it . .

ALPA is a waste of time when it comes to certificate defense anway (unless, of course, you're properly connected instead of the average line pilot). These guys would be well advised to seek their own counsel and pay out of pocket for certificate defense.

 

[Soverytired]

. I wonder if this guy will be seeking all the ALPA resources to keep his arse outta trouble? Begs the question; Why should ALPA lift ONE finger to help a clown out like this?

Uh, because it's a closed shop and dues paying is compuslory?

Because ALPA has a legal obligation to do so?

ALPA could have kicked these guys out of the union. They didn't. Now they're going to have to give them the same (questionable) "services" they give any other card-carrying line pilot, or they're probably looking at a lawsuit.

 

[Cloudroller]

He is a Freedom A list scumbag (I used to work at Mesa & have many friends that are still their - look him up on CrewTrac). MAG ALPA should not have let the A listers in. I believe he was an FO and went to F8 as a CA, so he is pure dirt.

 

[urflyingme?!]

How many Freedom A-listers have stalled a CRJ at altitude?

Freedom A listers are not scabs. They just took an available job, much like all the regional pilots who took jobs that used to belong to other mainline pilots.

Pot, meet kettle.

And as for the other crap, you bet he will get ALPA representation...because the Freedom guys are ALPA. If you don't like it, tell the BOD. I am sure they will listen.

A350

Ya if Mesa was flying UAL 767's Freedom would be like any other regional.

Freedom is ALPA, now. Before they were brought about to kill alpa... The A listers are worse than scabs, they facilitated the creation of an entire new airline in order to hurt 1500 pilots...

 

[SEVEN]

Freedom pilots were not scabs, just so's ya know.

WRONG!!!:uzi: Freedom/Gojets

 

[A350]

All you Mesa boys and girls need to realize a few facts.....

Freedom was not brought in to kill ALPA. It was brought in to get around the USAirways pilots scope clause.

Without the Freedom certificate, you could not have gotten even one 70 or 90 seat jet back before all the mainline BK's. And then you would have started to get them like all the other regional carriers out there.....oh but wait there is more.

When USAir east showed your E145's the door, where would you have put them? You would have lost all that flying and not been able to recover it at DAL /AMR/UAL because of their scope clauses.

Keep trash talking about one of your card carrying ALPA bretheren.

Again, I ask the question....how many Mesa Captains stalled RJ's at altitude? How many stalled one in the pattern in CLT?

A350

 

[urflyingme?!]

I know of a few including a former MEC chair...

I'm not trying to start fights here, I realize the scope issue was at the center, and I also think that we should not even be flying most of those 90's and some of the 70's.... The whole deal stinks....

Bottom line, management started the deal, and A Listers were the enabler, the guy at the 7-11 buying our 17yr old CEO his Night Train so he could get his PHX girlfriend drunk before the profit prom...

PS, We got hosed on the deal

 

[Bako Cap]

I donno, didn't ALPA allow back TRUE scabs at Continental? I'm sure they would have all the protections of ALPA.

 

[johndog]

There are two freedoms. Original A, and current B. This is criticaly important to remeber when discusing anything to do with Freedom. If you choose to have a strong opinion then make sure you educate yourself. Just a reminder to the haters.

 

[Inconceivable]

I'll bite. Who stalled an RJ in the pattern at CLT?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Hey, A350, sounds like you were an A lister.

Freedom was founded to get around USAir's scope clause, correct. When USAir gave Mesa relief from that clause, Orenstien kept building F8 but this time to get around negotiating a good contract with his pilots.

F8 was built up to break the union. The pilots at Mesa were in negotiations at the time to try and fix that POS Contract. The MEC warned all pilots going to f8 that it would hurt the cause of all Mesa pilots to get a good contract.

The A listers went and f8 had enough people to get going. Then JO started shrinking the Mesa fleet while increasing deliveries to F8. I know this because I flew two CRJ-200's to Montreal to give them back.

Then, I was Junior Assigned TDY from PHX to PHL (I live in PHX) for 6 months while guys Jr to me on the list flew as CRJ-900 CA in PHX.

A350, if you were on of them, then you are a tool. You are as bad as any G/Jet pilot, you are bad for the profession and I hope that if you are an A lister it means you will spend the rest of your career at Mesa .

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

As for Freedom B.... They are ok. Anybody at Freedom now, who is not on that "A" list is fine. Let them in your jumpseat. Welcome them as you would any other poor mesa slob.

If you need a Freedom A list, PM me and I will send one. And, I need a G/Jet list if there is one out there.

 

[A350]

Grog:

I must be an A-lister because I don't agree with you?

No, I am not an A-lister, but I was a U pilot. I was there the whole time this was going on and am very familiar with what happened. I was also one of the guys that lost his job with the mainline because there were plenty of new regional pilots to take my job.

Call it what you want, label it any way you want. But there is little difference between what happened to you with Freedom and what happened to me with Mesa.

A350

 

[sniper]

Grog:

I must be an A-lister because I don't agree with you?

No, I am not an A-lister, but I was a U pilot. I was there the whole time this was going on and am very familiar with what happened. I was also one of the guys that lost his job with the mainline because there were plenty of new regional pilots to take my job.

Call it what you want, label it any way you want. But there is little difference between what happened to you with Freedom and what happened to me with Mesa.

A350

I am going to fly the A350 for Usair as a contract pilot as soon as you start negotiating your new contract at Airways.

I am currently flying the A320, so it will be an easy transition.


I like to know what is your thoughts about that.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

A350, did you fly at a regional? How did you get your time to move to U?

There is a lot of difference with what happened to you at USAir and what happened at a stoopid ole' mesa.

U went under because of crap management not because of some dork in an RJ/Dash/1900 trying to build time to join you at the show. The biggest problem ever was the way ALPA and other groups ignored RJ's. Then MGMNT used RJ's to supplement mainline, then they used them to supplant mainline and force wage cuts. Why ALPA treated the DC-9 and Fokkers as mainline planes but not 50 seat RJ's escapes me.

I'm sorry things didn't work out as you hoped they would, they didn't for me either; but lets blame the real bad guys; managers who raided the company and pilots who won't hold the line during negotiations.

I agree with Sniper (as usual).

 

[Flyingdutchman]

It was a MESA pilot not a Freedom punk.

 

[A350]

The one thing we do agree on is that ALPA is the problem here.......

If the RJ was a mainline aircraft all along.....it wouldn't matter how big they got. The same guys who were flying the Boeings would end up flying the RJ's. the reason management was successful in gutting our pension and contract is because there were other ALPA members willing to fly jets at contract carriers that they knew were replacement jets. Without the willful participation of carriers like Mesa, perhaps the story would have changed.

As far as the rest, we will have to agree to disagree.

Sniper, come on in the water is warm...Of course you will have to get hired by USAirways first. So get behind the 1800 of us waiting in line to get called back. Then you can fly the A350.

A350

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I suppose we will A350; best of luck to us all. White collar to blue collar in our lifetime, pity eh?

 

[TWA Dude]

I was also one of the guys that lost his job with the mainline because there were plenty of new regional pilots to take my job.

It's funny how many pilots there are who just don't know who to blame for their misfortune so they lash out at the easiest target. Your USA job was not taken by non-mainline pilots; it was given to them by your airline's management. It's attitudes like yours that are truly destroying this profession.

 

[A350]

My attitude? Explain that one.


You are correct about one part of the equation.

Management has always been the problem....however. It is like a criminal. He needs the tools to get the job done. Management has had legions of regional airlines and their pilot groups to grovel over larger and larger jets. Several thousand mainline jobs were lost. Over the same 5 year period, thousands of new regional pilots were hired. If ALPA said no way to this kind of thing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If USAir management had noone to pawn a bunch of RJ's off on to replace me and my counterparts, they would have had to put the jets at mainline and the story would have ended there.

Sorry for the thread creep.

A350

 

[A350]

BTW:

The reason I get so steamed about the Freedom/GoJet thing is because noone at the regional level gets the parallel between what happened to the thousands of mainline pilots who were "replaced" and the "misdeeds" done to them by these "alter-ego" carriers. The only difference between a regional taking flying from a mainline and Freedom and Mesa is that when I lost my job, another UNION pilot replaced me. Not so at Freedom/GoJets, although they are all union now. They are called scabs and the like by people who have acted in like fashion, albeit under the watchful eyes of the union.

You don't have to like what I am saying, IMO, it is the truth.

A350

 

[sniper]

If that is the case, why you or others did not wait for Mesa to settle the contract, then apply and only then fly the 700/900?

Can you explain that?

 

[relief tube]

curious to see how someone who proclaims A-listers aren't scabs can defend that stance?

Yes, not as bad as mainline scabs, but if we accept this lesser yet still evil, evil, it will happen again. I have a 1 yr TSA CA friend who's been downgraded just short of 1000 PIC, all the while Blowjet gets the new flying. how's that acceptable?