MESA guys help please

[AirBill]

Why does that matter? Obviously Foobar is informed.

Of what? That he can vent everyone else's frustrations over Mesa onto one person just trying to work?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mesa's pilots are represented by ALPA, your international, correct? And, as to all contracts negotiated by MEC s of said union, international president Capt. Duane Woerth has to personally sign off on them, correct? And again, if I have this wrong, please let me know, but Capt. Woerth's signature is on that deal, is it not?

So why isn't ALPA taking some of this flak? The Mesa pilot group is being treated like a bunch of scabs over what? By engaging in thoughtful collective bargaining, receiving "expert" guidance from the honchos at ALPA, then, when all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed, Capt. Duane Woerth gives his annointed blessing on the deal. Oh, and don't forget, they had the specter of Freedom Air hanging over their heads the entire time.

So who caved? Well, Mesa's pilots did, that's for sure. But they got a little push along the way from lots of places, not the least of which was from Capt. Woerth himself. Now, this is not to lay the blame squarely at the foot of ALPA. But if this deal was as bad for pilots as we all believe it to be, then the Mesa pilot group surely deserved better representation than it received.

And now, some of us want to spit in the face of someone who wasn't even around when all of this happened. Someone whose shoes we've all been in before.

Think real hard before throwing stones, fellas. While many of us have earned the right to be offended at Mesa's contract, remember that bad things sometimes happen to good people.

 

[belchfire]

Interesting point. I have read a
few articals in ALPA magazine
belittling and bemoaning the
very existance of RJ's as a threat
to high-paying mainline jobs.
Even with so many fewer mainline
jobs out there right now, I bet that
their 1.9% of income that goes to the
ALPA coffers is more than all the
regional 1.9%'s put together...I
really don't know, it is 1.9% dues,
right?

just a junkstream driver for an
airline ALPA doesn't have time
to deal with.

Just like the management at Mesa,
they know which side the bread is
buttered on!

 

[8HourPilot]

Hey Boiler, do you instruct at Purdue?

 

[belchfire]

Boiler is a he!! of a bagsmasher
fer 3C at the LAF airport! See his
reply to the Corporate Airlines
post, and the rest of the $hitstorm!

Ha...hahaha

 

[SpocksBeard]

So I guess everybody who is getting on this guy for interviewing with mesa went right from flight instructing to making 30,000 a year at a regional right? He didn't have anything to do with the stupid contract issues over there. Who knows if he paid for training or not?? I guess I should've just kept flying freight 6 days a week because mesaba would only pay me 18 bucks an hour. I should just refuse an airline job on general principles, pay some more dues, etc just because I'm 22 and unmarried. That will definitely show them. Somebody please tell me if you know someone who started at their first 121 job making a "decent wage."

 

[8HourPilot]

One of the many papa uniform's that are constantly in the pattern when I have to venture down there? Always a good time.

 

[BoilerUP]

Hey Boiler, do you instruct at Purdue?

Yeah, I'm a Junior in the Flight program and a part-time instructor at Hangar Six. My students are the ones that DON'T sound like morons on the radio (there are many that do...a few with enough hours to know better).

Chicago Center doesn't seem to care for the Papa Uni's on their freq (other than 200, 300, and 400PU). Our local tower guys and gals take good care of us. Probably no where else will transients at night hear "Report 3 miles south, left traffic Runway 23, traffic is 11 Warriors in the left closed pattern"

 

[CitationLover]

i thinks its time for all pilots to realize that you dont make money (at least real money) in aviation.

ALL regional pilots (comair included) are lowering the bar. Suck it up, quit your whining, and go on.

 

[chperplt]

ALL regional pilots (comair included) are lowering the bar. Suck it up, quit your whining, and go on.

And how is everyone lowering the bar, Mr. 1000 hour, barely has his feet wet in aviation, know-it-all?

Is that really your opinion, or just the opinion that you picked up reading these boards? If it is really your opinion, please explain how all regional pilots, comair included are lowering the bar..

 

[GogglesPisano]

i thinks its time for all pilots to realize that you dont make money (at least real money) in aviation.

ALL regional pilots (comair included) are lowering the bar. Suck it up, quit your whining, and go on.

How much do you make and how many days off do you have in a month?

 

[WileE]

Chperplt

Go ask that question on the Mainline board. I'm sure you'll get plenty of answers about how all regionals are "lowering the bar".

 

[chperplt]

WileE

I'm sure I would get a lot of answers. But, the members on that board that would give answers, or have valid opinions, have been around a while and know the business.

I'm asking this kid on this board because he doesn't have any of the answers.

 

[Foobar]

The answer is...

ALPA has FAILED to EVOLVE with the industry. Major carriers will shift the flying to regional airlines and scope will die. Major carriers are contracting out flying and this model will continue. Doing so allows all costs (including labor) to be driven down to the lowest possible number. This contracting out allows mgmt. to bargain for lowest price on flights. Mesa is a step in this direction. It will continue. Someone is bound to drop a bit lower. Maybe ASA, maybe comair, maybe COEX.

This will continue to happen up the food chain until eventually those in charge of ALPA feel a sting. Probably when Mesa is flying 200 seat "regional jets" across the country. At that point ALPA will undergo a massive REVOLUTION (not a para-military one, but that could be fun!) and attempt to nationalize standards for carrier wages. That may or may not happen, and I suppose it will be the politicians that decide. In addition the supply of pilots will die out as training costs balloon to ridiculous numbers and the brass ring at the end of the line disappears. Those who can bail out of the industry will.

So I suppose, in the end, all you do-do heads taking jobs at Mesa for all the peanuts you can put in your pockets at the end of the day are just part of the machine.

You might realize however, that the major airline super fabulous job will be gone soon and you will be stuck in a job at Mesa making poverty wages, with a degree in airplane flying from embry-riddle, no other options for a job, and pissed because you never got what you THOUGHT you had coming.

Bend over fellows, here it comes….

And thanks again for taking a job at Mesa and helping this process along.

 

[stillaboo2]

What's informed?

Foobar,

Have you ever worked at a 121 job?

Why does that matter? Obviously Foobar is informed.

Informed? "Possessing, displaying, or based on reliable information" is what he is?

He is informed by reading the misinformation of a small minority of pilots who post on this board?

If he (or anyone else) gets his information from the internet only and doesn't actually work a 121 cockpit, he is not exposed to all sides of the equation, and is therefore not meeting the standards of 'informed'.

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, but only some of us can post an informed opinion. (Of course, since this whole board is anonomous, all he has to do is claim he is a 121 pilot, and then I've got egg on my face. )

If Foobar is not a Mesa pilot (and I don't think he is), he is not informed on this issue.

 

[Lou3]

I hear a lot of bashing on Mesa and I am surprised that no one ever mentions the other regional carriers that are 'lowering the bar' for pilots. Pinnacle does not even pay their new hires during training, nor do they pick up hotel or meal costs. In fact, I spoke to a former flight instructor buddy of mine recently who just got called for an interview at Pinnacle, his excitement was tempered due to the fact that he did not know if he could even take the job as he is supporting his wife through a solid flight instructing job and is making respectable money by comparrison. I find that to be truly sorry. Then there is Colgan airways which requires their new hires to pay up to 21K just for a spot in their training class--that is pathetic. Gulfstream International is so bad that I don't even recognize them as an airline. These aforementioned regional's are not the only guilty parties. There is very few regionals out there that pay above 20k for first year FO.

My point is, there are a number of carriers out there preying on low time/experience pilots and I do not see a whole lot written about the rest of them. Is it that no one cares for the new hire but only for what is affecting them (ie, raising the average wage of pre-existing regional pilots)? While this benefits those already established in the industry, and also those that eventually get hired and work their way up the seniority list, it seems that there is a void of concern for those just trying to get in. This only fosters an envrionment for new hires that 'why should we try and get more, we are not worth that much anyway'--they learned this on day one! No wonder very few stand up later on in their career's for better wages/benefits. Let's start placing the scorn on ALL those carriers that take advantage of the pilot workforce--remember, the attack is not always frontal but more often to our flanks.

I truly think that ALPA has never really had the regional pilots best interest at heart. At one time they could do that--but no more. Due to their long siesta, that have in essence given up the greater part of their strength. While they concentrated on the preservation of scope clauses (which would never last due to inherent market forces) they ignored the true and best way to help preserve major airline strength. That is, to make a significant decrease in the pay/benefits gap between regional and major pay. They finally caught on and made a bold stand with the Comair strike however, it may have been too little and too late. If ALPA is to succeed as a viable Union for the pilot future they must ensure equal and aggressive representation at the regional level. This in the end, will be the only way to fight the Lorenzo's and Ornstein's and whomever else of the future. Otherwise, we are all in for a ride on the declining wage/benefits highway.