Mesa Drops B737 Pursuit

[storminpilot]

Mesa Drops Plans To Fly Boeing 737s

Mesa is unlikely to fly Boeing 737s in the near future after management and pilots hit a roadblock in pay discussions for the narrowbody planes. Management approached pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), last month with a verbal offer for rates based on a stand-alone 10-aircraft operation from Pittsburgh.

"We've dropped the issue," CEO Jonathan Ornstein told The DAILY, adding that it was just one alternative the carrier was considering for the future. In a recent update Mesa's pilot leaders told ALPA membership that the carrier had denied its request to put the offer in writing, and the union eventually decided it wouldn't act on the verbal offer "due to its unofficial nature."

Carrier management offered captain's rates 20% above CRJ-900 pay, and a two-year extension of the collective bargaining agreement, which would have extended the contract to Sept. 19, 2009.

Mesa's pilot union leaders also said analysis showed the proposed rates were out of line with current industry averages for pilots flying similar equipment. Management proposed a $78.30 rate for a five-year captain versus $135.30 as an industry average, ALPA said in its Master Executive Council update. Ten-year captain rates were $90.30 versus an industry average of $144.05.

Despite dropping plans to fly 737s, Mesa's cash position could prop the airline up if US Airways enters a second round of Chapter 11 or liquidates. UBS analyst Robert Ashcroft says the carrier's cash balance -- $229 million at the end of March -- could allow the carrier survive a year without revenue from its US Airways fleet (DAILY, May 17). -LR

 

[Flying Colors]

Good! I'll vote for that.

 

[captjim]

JO isn't done yet. He'll have the Mesa boy's chomping at the bit with a real perposal before to long, and it will be below average 737 pay.

 

[On Your Six]

He's not done YET...

He'll set up an entirely different organization for the 737 operation using another certificate. Didn't he do that with Freedom? Nobody is crazy enough to believe that he is done - he needs growth to prop up Mesa's stock and his fat paycheck.

He ain't done yet... Watch out.

 

[:-)]

The down cards are out, the flop is yet to come. JohnnyO's not yet begun to raise, that was just a call. He'll end up with the nuts.

Pilots are soooooooooooooo easy.

I wish it wasn 't so, so don't flame me.

 

[nimtz]

Mesa Drops Plans To Fly Boeing 737s

Carrier management offered captain's rates 20% above CRJ-900 pay, and a two-year extension of the collective bargaining agreement, which would have extended the contract to Sept. 19, 2009.

Mesa's pilot union leaders also said analysis showed the proposed rates were out of line with current industry averages for pilots flying similar equipment. Management proposed a $78.30 rate for a five-year captain versus $135.30 as an industry average, ALPA said in its Master Executive Council update. Ten-year captain rates were $90.30 versus an industry average of $144.05.

Hysterical! Johnny you crack me up with just how far you plan on going. Man you are just trying to drive that dildo further and further into this profession's backside. It's not very often that a management teams offers a deal to a pilot group so bad that it makes me laugh purely from the fact the numbers are that pathetic and the two year extension is the icing on the cake.

Johnny, don't even play the game like you're trying to do. D@mn the lawsuits and take a page from Uncle Frank's book. Hire a non-union workforce to fly the things for 80 bucks an hour. One day some labor group in this industry is going to have to have a titanic clash with this cat to kill him off, because he will continue to push you're face into the gutter. Come he can't be that tough guys, after all he couldn't take a little hazing at the frat house in college.

 

[lowecur]

737 deal will never fly, even with a separate certificate. The payroll line has been drawn for the 737.

JO's only outlet is to go E-jets. He will go for a separate certificate just like Republic, where he will have the option of starting a new airline or leasing some of the popular E-jets to the various carriers that will eventually have to match MAA and UAX. I look for Skywest to also follow this path.

 

[skootertrash]

Guess we'll see how good your lovely "don't care about pay rates" scope is now hu?

 

[dvtpilot]

Another Article i read today

Lower-cost US Regionals may do better on their own
Dateline: Thursday June 10, 2004

Regional airlines that feed Majors may find greater success by copying Atlantic Coast Airlines and reducing or even eliminating their codesharing ties to become independent carriers, JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker says in a recent report.

"As captive small-jet opportunities [for Regionals] wane…a multiyear transition to partial or full independence is not only logical, but quite likely," he argues. Despite their dependent relationship, Regionals enjoy a crucial advantage over their larger partners: Significantly lower labor costs. And, according to Baker, "airlines are all about labor costs."



The next likely candidate to declare independence, he suggests, is Mesa Air Group, which is exposed heavily to US Airways' financial problems--by year end it is expected to have half its RJ fleet operating under the US designator. Should US Airways fail, it will release 100 RJs into the market, Baker states.

Mesa Chairman and CEO Jonathan Ornstein previously expressed interest in acquiring US Airways' Pittsburgh hub should the latter wish to sell it. With Mesa's pilot labor cost structure, its 90-seat CRJs "can actually match the economics not only of American's 757s but JetBlue's A320s," says Baker. Assuming Mesa can achieve similar economics while operating 737-size or larger aircraft, "it would suggest a pilot labor cost advantage well in excess of that enjoyed by any current operator." Still, Baker acknowledges that "getting there won't be easy." Contractual issues involving big-airline pilot scope clauses could prevent some Regionals from launching standalone ventures, as could a reluctance to eliminate cozy fee-for-departure arrangements in favor of no-holds-barred competition. And Regionals will have to reach agreement with their own pilot workgroups before bringing on larger aircraft and going head-to-head against a former partner, as ACA did before it launched Independence Air.--Perry Flint

-----

Big surprise.....

 

[acaTerry]

No 737's

Well, the refusal by the pilot group, or at least their reps, shows some hope that these guys may be growing a backbone.
So far as declaring an independent carrier...I see him doing so, but not simply under a seperate certificate. ie Freedom all over again, not as alter ego, but as a seperate airline, as in STARTUP. This would not apply to the current contract prohibition of alter-ego carriers.
The guy is a dirty, greedy bum. And I would watch out for Branson. He's been in bed with JO before. Forget all that Lordship krap...Branson is an English Ornstien.

 

[Dr.Hwang]

"Mesa's pilot union leaders also said analysis showed the proposed rates were out of line with current industry averages for pilots flying similar equipment. Management proposed a $78.30 rate for a five-year captain versus $135.30 as an industry average, ALPA said in its Master Executive Council update. Ten-year captain rates were $90.30 versus an industry average of $144.05."

I'll give you my daughter for four sheep and a bucket of CRAP....no, make it three horny donkeys a two buckets of CRAP. I have seen the light...it is the end of the world!!

 

[MW44]

My guess:

Jo will come back with a last minute take it or leave it offer of around 100/hr for Ca and 55/hr for Fo's and the pilot group will eat it up. All the Mesa Mec needs is an excuse to undercut the rest of the professionals in this industry. I'm sure Jo will be able to give them one soon. Hope i'm wrong...

 

[:-)]

My guess:

Jo will come back with a last minute take it or leave it offer of around 100/hr for Ca and 55/hr for Fo's and the pilot group will eat it up. All the Mesa Mec needs is an excuse to undercut the rest of the professionals in this industry. I'm sure Jo will be able to give them one soon. Hope i'm wrong...

Lemmee see. $100 an hour times 80 hours a month times twelve months equals $96K a year. That suxs, but it beats what the average working man makes. It also beats the pay scales of most other professions.

They'll take it. Hell, that's not far off of the wages paid by some of the other LCC's.

We have only ourselves to blame.

 

[j41driver]

Mesa's pilot union leaders also said analysis showed the proposed rates were out of line with current industry averages for pilots flying similar equipment.

Isn't that the same with all of the equipment that Mesa flies?

 

[Rottweiller]

Forget all that Lordship krap...Branson is an English Ornstien.

Terry you are sadly misinformed. I have a couple of friends from my time flying in Europe who are with Virgin and they enjoy probably the best pay and conditions of any carrier in the UK (bar BA - who's @ss Branson has kicked numerous times).

When Branson starts his op in SFO next year you can bet I will be amoungst the first in line (assumimg he has nothing to do with that festering pit JO!!)

 

[AMANSWORLD]

Mesa should just drop off the face of the Earth. They are sorry as hell.

 

[mooser]

Mesa should just drop off the face of the Earth. They are sorry as hell.

Aggreed

Mooser

 

[CitationLover]

Aggreed

Mooser

aren't you in the pool for lakes? doesn't air middie make more than lakes?

pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Thrust Master]

Why would this surprize anyone.

 

[mooser]

aren't you in the pool for lakes? doesn't air middie make more than lakes?

pot calling the kettle black.

Negative; Lakes is in a class all of it's own. It's a 121PIC factory for the LCC and Majors. The only competition lakes gives other regionals is for the few EAS contracts that are left.

Also the current pilots havn't accepted there contract for more than three years. They have the Nuts to stick it out for somthing better!!!

I don't see the Mesa pilot group screaming blody murder over there contract....

Anyone please feel free to make any pertenent coments

Mooser

 

[bogberto]

Negative; Lakes is in a class all of it's own. It's a 121PIC factory for the LCC and Majors. The only competition lakes gives other regionals is for the few EAS contracts that are left. Also the current pilots havn't accepted there contract for more than three years. They have the Nuts to stick it out for somthing better!!! I don't see the Mesa pilot group screaming blody murder over there contract... Mooser

(1) Air Midwest has snagged a couple of Lakes' routes already. It too is a Part 121 B1900D PIC factory. Pretty sure ZV pays more, too.

(2) I have yet to see Lakes' management create another airline to undermine negotiations. Ever heard of CCAir? They used to be a great company, with great payrates and work rules. Then Johnny shut them down because Duane Woerth would not sign their concessionary contract that slashed work rules and payrates below our first contract. He did sign our POS, so if you have a problem with it, call him and tell him to grow nuts. We'll thank you for the support.

(3) You must be deaf if you haven't heard us screaming over our craptract. We're in the early stages of recalling our MEC Chair and Vice Chair, along with most of our LEC reps. The "Freedom A" types will jump at the chance to fly a 737 for Home Depot forklift wages. They'll be alone. The only people who truly enjoy working at MAG at the newhires, but after 6 months they hate it like the rest of us.

(4) "There" is a noun / adj / adv used to denote a place. "Their" is a pronoun used to denote possession.

Have a great day.

 

[145FO]

Why would this surprize anyone.

Just wanted to say "nice avatar". That's all.

 

[acaTerry]

Rottweiler,

I must disagree. RB is not stupid, he sees the current conditions here in the USA and smells the blood in the water. He'll be a high class Mesa.
From a Virgin pilot at IAD: and I quote, "He is a wanker (whatever that means). He'll come in to the US, and become the equivalent of your Wal Mart in airlines, except he'll provide good quality to the passenger".
Sounds pretty plain and simple. He'll do fine for the customer, but do it on cheap labor. And in principle, since it is foreign ownership in disguise, I say it's nothing less than cabotage.

 

[N8Dogg]

Mooser,

Spend a little more time getting your facts straight. Research then post. Just an observation.