Mesa CEO Jonathan Ornstein, AKA Lorenzo

[jetdriven]

This comment was made on the Mesa yahoo board 9-16-2002 when asked about the possibility of a strike. Make no mistake about it folks, JO is either bluffing or willing to sacrifice the company for his ego. Does this sound like Continental and Frank Lorenzo all over again?? Pretty troubling..
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From: "Ornstein, Jonathan" <jonathan.ornstein@m...>
Date: Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:01 am
Subject: RE: STRIKE AT MESA AIR GROUP? J.O. IT'S UP TO YOU!!!

I am getting tired of all these threats of a strike, The industry is basically imploding and we are arguing about how much of a pay increase we are giving. Now let me fill you in one something. In case of a strike there will be one line to walk. The unemployment line.

before that he was asked about what if the comapny went on strike and he would be out of a job right along with us his reply was "do you think I need this job or any other?"

 

[bobbysamd]

Mr. Ornstein

What a swell guy. I guess he reread the chapters about E.L. Cord and Ted Baker in his copy of Flying the Line.

Typical management. I remember when I worked in radio I would hear that there were thirty applicants available for every job.

Somebody wrote a post some time ago about when this came up before. Mr. O. and Grady Reed brandished a stack of apps, thumbed them and told the pilots that they had plenty of applicants for their jobs.

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

I don't know a lot about the airlines. In fact, I don't know much about anything. What I think this guy is doing is hedging his bet that the pilots won't go on strike. If I was a Mesa pilot, I doubt I could afford to go on strike unless I had a substantial savings account. Any concessions a strike would win from management would probably take years to pay for the losses they took to get them. I'm not saying he should be towing the hard line against the pilots but I'd bet that's his reasoning. The other side is that when you tow the hard line, the work the employee's do will diminish and it would have made more economic sense to just make the concessions early. Although I have no idea what union is demanding and whether the demands are deserved or even palatable. It sort of reminds me of the baseball fiasco this summer. It took a long time to realize that they were going to lose a substantial amount of customers by striking and then management wouldn't be able to afford their current inflated salaries, let alone their new ones. I was one who was severely dissapponted that they came to an agreement. It is high time we get rid of the most boring sport ever invented and move on to something more exciting like watching the grass grow, but that's not important right now. In a time when the airlines are hurting may not be the time to try and win concessions from management. But like I said, what do I know.

 

[enigma]

I really don't think that it is fair to compare JO to Lorenzo. JO may be anti-labor and a tyrant, but he's not Lorenzo. Lorenzo never had any intention of running an airline, he intended to loot the employee retirement accounts and cash reserves that the airlines held. JO has been a part of growing airlines, not tearing them down. JO wants to make as much money as possible, Lorenzo wanted to steal as much as possible. There is a huge difference.

regards,
8N

 

[Mr.Aviation]

This guy a an A-HOLE! He is the single biggest enemy of airline pilots today!!

 

[surplus1]

I'm not hardly pro JO but one thing that holds true is that you shoud never underestimate an adversary.

It is very possible that Ornstein may decide to "call" the union and take a strike. He really isn't acting any different than Delta did with Comair. Don't forget that Delta literally forced a strike and took it for 89 days, losing (according to them) $700 million dollars over that period, all to avoid giving the pilots contract improvements that would have cost maybe $50 million more than what they ultimately gave over the same 5-year period.

They threatened to shut down the most profitable regional airline in the country and one they had paid 1.9 billion dollars to buy only a few months before. They probably would have done it if the union hadn't given in and make no mistake about it, the union did not win that strike. By comparison with Mesa, Delta is rather benign in its relationship with pilot unions. Yet they did it.

Often these disputes are about a lot more than dollars and cents. Ornstein is in charge and is not likely to turn that power over to ALPA without a fight. It will be interesting to see who "blinks" but given ALPA's "support" of regional carriers this one may get a lot more interesting before it's over.

I wish the Mesa pilots good luck. They're going to need it.

 

[Captain X]

Mesa & EAS cities

Doesn't Mesa serve a bunch of EAS (Essential Air Service) cities? What happens to those routes if Mesa strikes?

If the US Gov't requires that there be service to those cities will Mesa lose the EAS contracts and then they are no longer "Mesa" routes which means they could be picked up by another carrier w/o being considered struck work?

I'm not implying anything, just asking for educational purposes.

 

[chperplt]

I would think that all EAS contracts, being contracts, would have wording that would void the contract should the carrier become unable to service those routes for a certain predetermined time period.

If that did happen, I wouldn't think that the company that is awarded those EAS routes would be fling struck work. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would disagree with me.

 

[publisher]

Agree

One big difference between the two is that I believe Jonathon basically created and grew these businesses up while FL just went in and grabbed what others had stashed away.

 

[tintube]

For those of you with bad memory, or without the facts, read about F.L. and the history of New York Air. Compare that with J.Os Freedom Airlines and the situation @ Mesa.

What Mesa AL is asking at the negotiating table are average rates for the 200 / 700 and 900. Another words: the Pilots are willing to settle for less than that, but will emphasie on quality life issues that does not neccessary has to cost the company a whole lot.

There is no comarison to Delta/Comair strike and Mesa. Mesa does not have the cash to survive a long strike.

 

[tintube]

Personally I hope no one ever have to go as far as a strike to settle contract negitiation. Period.
I am sorry to hear that you would find pleasure in above situation.................

 

[tired_pilot]

mesa pilots need to strike call the bluf

Until you've worked at YV you dont know how bad it is.

 

[enigma]

OK, I'll bite

Tired Pilot.

Not that I doubt you, But.

PLease specify just how bad it is.

Is it money?, working conditions?, days off? schedules?, base instability?, maintenance?

regards
8N

 

[tired_pilot]

life at mesa

Got laid off from a 727 back in Feb 2001...called Mesa HR was able to get an interview 3 days later...easy interview got the job..was hired as a 1900 Captain at $23,000. I show up to class in PHX and am told I was put in the Dash 8 as an FO seat locked for a year at 13,000. Towards the end of the first week..the chief pilot (SC) struts in class like joe cool....and says and I quote "Theres only a few givens here at Mesa...one of them is not all you guys are going to make it through ground school..we interview every wed"....and struts out the door. Since most of the class had under a 1000 hours..he scared the s**! out of them. I was like what the hell was that.
It cost me a $1000 for my hotel during training..they dont pay for it for new hires. Infact once your a true "employee" and go in for upgrade or recurrent your put up in a make shift dormitory...not even a hotel..new hires can stay in the dormitory..but they charge them $30 a night.
My sim training was horrible..unorganized all from 1am to 5am..I understand training is 24/7 but instructors who cant give you answers to easy questions like a target power seting for an ILS?? I've been through 3 airline classes..it was just bad.

In August 2001 it took 8 months to be able to hold a line on the dash 8. Reserve was 23 days a month 16 hours a day..at the time a 90 min call out. I was getting a 2 week pay check of $456!
The ALPA contract says pilots will receive 8 days off a month.. twice a month 3 days off and one time 2 days off. Only 3 of those days were what they called "golden"..where they could not change at the last min. Per diem was $1.00 an hour. If you wanted to get your per diem or pay over garentee you had to fill out by hand a pay sheet..listing every flight you did all month. I always filled out something wrong according to them and never got mine on time..infact they still owe me 200 in per diem. Its unbeleivable to me they dont give you a print out of your flight time..instead making you do it. I ended up resigning to "have a life"..I didnt want to give up that much of my life...just to build hours.

I know this is a cut throat industry...but what disheartend me the most was the bitterness towards the pilot group there. I just wanted to be treated like a human being more then anything else.
I've sat at the same table with Ornstein for lunch..he is a very elloquent dynamic speaker and could be a great leader of a great company if he treated his employee's in a moral decent way..but I know thats not his plan.

FYI...he has destroyed 2 airlines Westair and CCAir for those of you saying he's just built airlines.

The guys at Mesa need our support now more then ever..lets help them in whatever way we can!

PS..call Mesa airlines emlpoyee message 877-MESA-CEO see how powerful a speaker Ornstein is..he updates it on fridays

 

[enigma]

tired_pilot,

Thanks for the specific reply. Man, Mesa's negotiating committee for the current contract must have sucked. That's a terrible contract. We had it better twelve years ago. My memory of JO is only as a money man, when I worked for Mesa, Larry was still in total control. I would even say that Larry was the one that hosed Westair. About CCAir, I'll take your word for it.

regards,
8N

 

[bobbysamd]

WestAir

I wondered what happened to WestAir. Now I know.

MAPD was no day at the beach, either, especially regarding maintenance. One time, they stuck a Bonanza with inop flaps on the line and told us to fly it. The flaps were placarded. I refused to fly that airplane. This was in 1993, when Larry was still in charge.

By the way, they had the dormitory system back then as well. Before they built the dormitory, they put up new-hires in this fleabag motel on the main drag of Farmington. I don't remember the name of the place, but I remember visiting a couple of my friends at the place in 1990 who were in class.

 

[STEVE CANYON]

Hey Tired_Pilot:

Who was the Cheif pilot? I heard J.O. now has his own personal DHC-8-200.

 

[STEVE CANYON]

Just to add to Tired_Pilot's post. The employee turnover rate at Mesa, not just pilots, but all departments were easily over 50 percent. I went to one of J.O.'s luncheons as an existing employee, not a new hire. It took alot to keep my mouth shut. What he says and what he really does is two different things. The former editors at Pravda couldn't have been any more prouder. The sad part is his reputation spills over onto others in his organization. Larry Risely was the better CEO of the two.

 

[enigma]

Re: WestAir

Before they built the dormitory, they put up new-hires in this fleabag motel on the main drag of Farmington. I don't remember the name of the place, but I remember visiting a couple of my friends at the place in 1990 who were in class.

The Zia Motel in beautiful downtown FMN. And those Zia babes, wow.

regards
8N

BTW. everything in New Mexico is ZIA something or the other.

 

[bobbysamd]

Zia "Motel"

That's it, all right. How quickly we forget.

I believe the dorm was across the street from Corporate in Farmington.

Larry Risley was the better CEO of the two.

Can something like that be possible?

Lest we forget about another member of Mesa's fine "management" team, Mr. Beech 1900, Grady Reed. I heard that his son actually was sharp and nothing at all like Grady.