Mesa Ba

[Lear70]

DoinTime is right on the money. I went to the roadshow in Detroit night before last, and I read the full text of the T.A. (left a copy in our operations area), and although there are some great things in there, it's not the huge leap over the PCL contract your Association is touting (trust me, I've been on reserve for long enough to have memorized our contract and recognize the differences at first read). Actually, there were several things in the presentation that were incorrect about our contract and a couple sections where your contract is actually less attractive than ours!

The F/O rates, CDO guarantee, and the 150% for trip pickup is the basic main gain in your contract over ours. As Doin Time said, the gains from "block or better" or for "4 hour min day" are "marginal" at best. If you like, I can post the last month's bid packet on a publically available website for any Mesaba pilot to download and review. If you can find a 4-6% increase in monthly pay for the majority of our pilots based on your 4 hour min day, I'll buy you a steak dinner at Morton's.

That said, Wychor said it best: You have to decide if you and your families can live with this agreement. "It's not everything we wanted, but it was enough to bring to you to decide whether to accept or not". That's a direct quote, by the way. I sincerely hope it dies, and I know it'll be close, but I KNOW that your group DESERVES more and CAN GET IT! Either way, the pilots at PCL support the pilots at MSA, because in the end, it's YOUR contract; we only ask for the same support 3 years from now...

Good luck, and God bless!

 

[fly4ever]

JJJ,

While it is true that you are expecting to receive all of the current CRJ's on order, if you read your SEC filing carefully regarding the IPO prospectus, it will tell you that NWA can re-allocate those CRJ's whenever they choose. They can slow your deliveries to send some in another direction whenever they choose. There are no guarantees in this industry.

DoinTime,

You make some good points but you are looking at our contract from only your perspective and with your W-2s. As you get closer to your contract negotiations your schedules will begin to change rather dramatically especially for the junior people. That is where the pressure is applied in order to suck the life out of your contract hopes. Maybe you won't be here when all of that takes place - what with comments made by other PCL folks about getting their 1000 PIC in in a year and a half. I'm sure there will be a huge hiring boom in the next two years and you won't have to deal with it. If not, be prepared for the same treatment and pressure that has been applied to us. Our lawyer/contract administrator has been doing these contracts for 18+ years. She has negotiated several contracts over that time including the Air Whiskey contract that raised the bar in the industry. When she says that she believes we extracted every penny we could from this company in this TA I believe she knows what she is talking about. If this TA is voted down and we go back to the table there will be no more money provided by the company, the best that could be hoped for would be a re-shuffle of the numbers. Just ask the America West pilots if the TA they finally passed had anything better than the first TA they rejected. It only re-shuffled the numbers and a little language.

No matter what, it is a difficult decision and none of us takes it lightly. We know what the stakes are and the risks involved. I have a new level of respect for all who have been through this process and have had to make the decision for or against. The sniping that is aimed at you from those who don't know anything about your company or your current contract and TA is unbelievable. We'll see how you hold up to the pressure if you're still around.

 

[JJJ]

We are getting 129 RJ's. NWA can reduce that number to 95 if they wish in the future.

 

[XJslave]

People, people, people,

Our work rules lead the industry! I repeat OUR WORK RULES LEAD THE INDUSTRY!!!!!!

What everything boils down to is what a person brings home on their W-2. If you don't believe me I have seen two peoples last paycheck on what they made in the year of 2003.

4-5 year FO making $30.05/hr
$39,284

5-6 year SF-340 Captain (line holder)
makes $45.28/hr
$58,016

Work rules give you quite a bump in paychecks. So when you all talk about Pinnacle, Mesa, ACA, Air Wisconsin, Comair making $1-3 dollar more an hour than a Mesaba pilot ask them what pay is protected when a trip is cancelled, Ask about CDO's, ask about minimum pay garantee, ask about a minimum pay day, ask them what kind of scope protection they have, ask about training on the back side of the clock, ask about retirement, ask about jumpseats, ask about premium pay, And then ask to see their W-2 at the end of the year compared to a Mesaba pilot.

We fell way short in FO pay, fell a little short in Captain pay, and are also signing a 5 year contract. Mesaba pilots, by far, blew away the competion with work rules and scope. (yes we sold some for solid scope.)

At first my vote was a no, But now knowing the facts I changed it to an absolute YES

Simon, what are you smoking? I left Mesaba for AWAC, and I can tell you looking at your TA that your work rules are nowhere near AWAC's. So you got a 4 hour min day, and AWACs is only 3, but we have trip and duty rigs also. The retirement you got is only a increase in 401k match, thats not a retirement. The work rules in the TA are very good, but they are not the best industry. This is not an attack, I just think it sucks that after 2 1/2 years of the company making your life hell this TA is the best they can do. I can't tell you guys how to vote. It's your TA and you'll have to live with it, but please don't act like this is the best contract in the industry. I can say if i was still in XJ land I'd vote no on this crap.

 

[DoinTime]

We are getting 129 RJ's. NWA can reduce that number to 95 if they wish in the future.

While it is true that you are expecting to receive all of the current CRJ's on order, if you read your SEC filing carefully regarding the IPO prospectus, it will tell you that NWA can re-allocate those CRJ's whenever they choose. They can slow your deliveries to send some in another direction whenever they choose. There are no guarantees in this industry.

Both incorrect statements. Pinnacle is to operate a minimum fleet of 129 CRJ's by 12/2005 per the service agreement amendment shortly before the IPO went through. The only way to reduce this number is the cancellation of our contract or a work stoppage. If a work stoppage occurs the fleet can be immediately reduced by 79 CRJ's. If the strike continues for more than 45 days the fleet can be reduced to a minimum of 50 CRJ's.

You make some good points but you are looking at our contract from only your perspective and with your W-2s.

My whole point was for your pilots to look at this TA as it applies to THEM. I think its rocks that your 401 pays out 125% in matching but when you need 20 yos to reach that level it doesn't matter much to the guy who has been there three years. Safe to say there are no more Avro's on the horizon as well. Any new jet growth will be in form of 44 seat jets. These will be the payrates most of your pilots will be under as your agreement matures.

This agreement will probably span another seven years and then everything will be up grabs. Does it provide what you need from it now? Will it provide what you need in the future?

She has negotiated several contracts over that time including the Air Whiskey contract that raised the bar in the industry.

Did she also negotiate the concessions that gutted that very same agreement?

 

[JJJ]

I don't have the prospectus with me, but I thought that there was provision that allowed to reduce the number to 95 without a work stoppage.

 

[DoinTime]

I don't have the prospectus with me, but I thought that there was provision that allowed to reduce the number to 95 without a work stoppage.

That was an older version of the service agreement. When the remainder of the firm orders were awarded to Pinnacle the minimum number was raised to 129 and any addition aircraft awards must remain at Pinnacle unless we violate the terms of our agreement or strike.

Be sure to look at the prospectus dated 11/7/03. I believe four different propectuses were issued and all can still be found on the internet.

 

[blade230]

Per the IPO, we CANNOT operate a CRJ fleet at ANY number LESS than 129 JETS.

The only event that would LEGALLY let them reduce this number,(without a law suit from stock owners) is if there is a work stoppage for a period of greater than 7 days. This is spelled out precisely in the IPO, several times.

It also spells out precisely that we can, and MAY go over 129 jets, but if this happens, they can always reduce us to the MINIMUM 129 jets. All of coarse, whithout a work stoppage for more than 7 days.

I personally think Mesaba WILL see jets on property, big NWA still has 175 options. But you will NOT see any of the initial 129 ordered. Not that it matters, because in my opinion, you will get new jets anyways.

I wish every Mesaba pilot the best, you deserve it, and so do we.

 

[flyn96]

I wonder if XJ gets the CRJ (which is good pissibility) will NWA start giving CRJ's to 9E at a slower rate. For example lets says the Canadians can give out 4 a month to NWA. Once Mesaba starts rolling they get 1 a month and 9E 3 a month, then when NWA wants to tighned the screws 9E gets 1 month and XJ gets 3 per months. Yes 9E will get 129 Jets but it doesn't say how fasta and at waht rate

 

[blade230]

The IPO states they MUST ALL (129 CRJ's) BE on 9E property by the end of 2005.

That does not mean that big NWA won't exercise options on the 175 before then. You still could get CRJ's before 2005. But 9E will still keep their delivery schedule. It will not be reduced.

On a tangent, I heard you might get ERJ 135/140/145's, not CRJ's.
Even though it sounds odd considering the CRJ options.

 

[jetset]

From my uneducated observation, it seems to me that NWA will give planes to whoever is NOT negotiating a contract.

 

[AvroJockey]

From my uneducated observation, it seems to me that NWA will give planes to whoever is NOT negotiating a contract.

Exactly!

It’s not a coincidence that you guys (9E) finish getting jets in 2005.

 

[flap operator]

Also not coincidense that 8 deliveries have been accelarated into THIS year for a total of 40 deliveries (per their earnings call yesterday). They couldn't possibly be able to give you love right before they crack the whip could they now? We all know nwa likes it rough... you know, with whips and saws.



FO

 

[DTWFO]

Does anyone know when the results of the voting will be announced??