canadflyau
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Posts
- 437
I have grown to respect many opinions on here so I figured I would ask for your professional opinion on this subject matter.
When I was furloughed from a WO everyone started badmouthing contract carriers, especially MESA. So instead of jumping on the bandwagon a MESA pilot pointed my to the "freemesaairlines forum" on yahoo. I ocassionally post messages there b/c of all people the CEO Ornstein is a regular on there.. so I am a regular reader.
I have a question and an observation (and if you have been in a discussion w/me previously you know I have no problem getting my hat handed to me) However if you don't mind when you answer please state what aspect of your career you are in. I.E. myself I start by saying:
Furloughed from Regional-
(the reason is that I have started to notice that our union and those who have come before us may be surprised by our viewpoints of the up and coming pilots, like myself. However my father flies for AA so I am well indoctrinated, but i fear our elders may have forgotten the road they traveled some years ago and many fledglings are going astray withouth guidance form the Father Geese out there!)
The reason I am doing this is the shocking response I received after posting this on the yahoo forum.. about the ongoing CRJ-900, 90 seat "regional" aircraft. Here is what I posted b/c there is an ongoing debate about "industry standard" on that forum.
The Post:Here are some similar sized aircraft!
Here is the pay scale for the F-100 at American:
(By the way AMR uses a formula, I am sure APA would be happy to send it to you.. based on several factors number of seats, etc.)
FO (based on 74 hrs/month)
yr1 $2,701
yr2 $5,775
yr3 $6,986
yr4 $7,140
max $8,427
CAPT
yr2 $11,549
yr3 $11,643
yr4 $11,737
yr5 $11,830
max $12,486
Here is a smaller aircraft
Northwest DC-9
FO
yr1 $2,591
yr2 $4,034
yr3 $6,972
yr4 $7,145
max $8,473
CAPT
yr2 $11,526
yr3 $11,619
yr4 $11,713
yr5 $11,807
max $12,460
End of Post.
Here is my question.. do you feel these would be appropriate pay scales to look at when determining how the pilots of a 90 seat a/c should be paid? Do you feel these a/c should be flown there, why or why not? Or do you feel different sectors of aviation will be paid differently despite the equipment when doing the same job?
My observation: I went through a study of labor relations for a semester in school. We looked at why and how unioins were formed, how they have evolved and the present status of unions (looked at UAW, and USW a great deal) It seems that the pure form of the union as intended is far from the tool we are using now. However this is an industry like no other! I always like looking at the union brothers/sisters in trades, operating as intended. (Oversimplified summary about to begin) When you want to become a plumber you go serve as an apprentice. When you finish that you are certified and join the union. Whenever a company or whatnot needed a plumber they don't run an add, the go to the union. The union sends them a qualified person and tells them what is the going rate for the particular plumber with his/her expertise. Our union however is setup on the case by case instead of ALPA setting the National Rate for our profession (727, 737, 757, with appropriate seniority) I guess what I am getting at in this poorly worded post is that not only do we not have a National Professional Pilot Focus, we lack unity within our ranks from the oldest 747 driver to the 1900 FO. The young pilots entering into this profession with me are not like minded and seem too willing to think that you can give your services away to a certain point, because it will all be rectified by a job with the "majors." I don't share this viewpoint because I fear the majors may be fading as pilots retire and the major growth will be held to the National/Regional level and there will not be the future in this profession like I hoped when I set out on this journey.
When I was furloughed from a WO everyone started badmouthing contract carriers, especially MESA. So instead of jumping on the bandwagon a MESA pilot pointed my to the "freemesaairlines forum" on yahoo. I ocassionally post messages there b/c of all people the CEO Ornstein is a regular on there.. so I am a regular reader.
I have a question and an observation (and if you have been in a discussion w/me previously you know I have no problem getting my hat handed to me) However if you don't mind when you answer please state what aspect of your career you are in. I.E. myself I start by saying:
Furloughed from Regional-
(the reason is that I have started to notice that our union and those who have come before us may be surprised by our viewpoints of the up and coming pilots, like myself. However my father flies for AA so I am well indoctrinated, but i fear our elders may have forgotten the road they traveled some years ago and many fledglings are going astray withouth guidance form the Father Geese out there!)
The reason I am doing this is the shocking response I received after posting this on the yahoo forum.. about the ongoing CRJ-900, 90 seat "regional" aircraft. Here is what I posted b/c there is an ongoing debate about "industry standard" on that forum.
The Post:Here are some similar sized aircraft!
Here is the pay scale for the F-100 at American:
(By the way AMR uses a formula, I am sure APA would be happy to send it to you.. based on several factors number of seats, etc.)
FO (based on 74 hrs/month)
yr1 $2,701
yr2 $5,775
yr3 $6,986
yr4 $7,140
max $8,427
CAPT
yr2 $11,549
yr3 $11,643
yr4 $11,737
yr5 $11,830
max $12,486
Here is a smaller aircraft
Northwest DC-9
FO
yr1 $2,591
yr2 $4,034
yr3 $6,972
yr4 $7,145
max $8,473
CAPT
yr2 $11,526
yr3 $11,619
yr4 $11,713
yr5 $11,807
max $12,460
End of Post.
Here is my question.. do you feel these would be appropriate pay scales to look at when determining how the pilots of a 90 seat a/c should be paid? Do you feel these a/c should be flown there, why or why not? Or do you feel different sectors of aviation will be paid differently despite the equipment when doing the same job?
My observation: I went through a study of labor relations for a semester in school. We looked at why and how unioins were formed, how they have evolved and the present status of unions (looked at UAW, and USW a great deal) It seems that the pure form of the union as intended is far from the tool we are using now. However this is an industry like no other! I always like looking at the union brothers/sisters in trades, operating as intended. (Oversimplified summary about to begin) When you want to become a plumber you go serve as an apprentice. When you finish that you are certified and join the union. Whenever a company or whatnot needed a plumber they don't run an add, the go to the union. The union sends them a qualified person and tells them what is the going rate for the particular plumber with his/her expertise. Our union however is setup on the case by case instead of ALPA setting the National Rate for our profession (727, 737, 757, with appropriate seniority) I guess what I am getting at in this poorly worded post is that not only do we not have a National Professional Pilot Focus, we lack unity within our ranks from the oldest 747 driver to the 1900 FO. The young pilots entering into this profession with me are not like minded and seem too willing to think that you can give your services away to a certain point, because it will all be rectified by a job with the "majors." I don't share this viewpoint because I fear the majors may be fading as pilots retire and the major growth will be held to the National/Regional level and there will not be the future in this profession like I hoped when I set out on this journey.