Member of NWA MEC votes NO to XJ Strike Pay!

[EL10]

Not only did the NWA MEC corner the XJ pilots to go on strike, then to put salt in the wound a member of there MEC votes against authorizing strike privileges to the XJ pilots. That is beyond pathetic......

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Question 1: I have read the proposed resolution related to the approval of strike benefits for the Mesaba pilot group and related assessment, and vote my roll call votes as follows:

NWA 1 ------- GRADWOHL, DANIEL J. (91)

# Votes FOR NC
# Votes AGAINST 91
Skip NC
Total 91​

TOTAL (43552)​

# Votes FOR 43211
# Votes AGAINST 108
Skip 0
Total 43319​

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Question 2: I have read the proposed resolution related to a reduction of the 35-day waiting period for strike benefits for the MSA pilot group, and vote my roll call votes as follows:​

NWA 1 ------- GRADWOHL, DANIEL J. (91)​

# Votes FOR NC
# Votes AGAINST 91
Skip NC
Total 91​

NWA 74 ------- TEASLEY, DANA A. (132)​

# Votes FOR NC
# Votes AGAINST 132
Skip NC
Total 132​

TOTAL (43552)​

# Votes FOR 43029
# Votes AGAINST 290
Skip 0
Total 43319​

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[XJohXJ]

So much for solidarity!

 

[Dodge]

That sounds about right.

Remember, XJ pilots steal NW pilots' jobs with Saabs. Solidarity? Surely you jest. That only happens in one's own local union..........sometimes maybe.

 

[OPECJet]

Where did you find these results? I got an email with other results, but not those.

 

[Sig]

To he!! with Woerth's sorry, pathetic, circle-jerking Union and the lackey's that suck up to him.

Half a million bones for this Viagra popping chinless wonder? What can we get for 600K? Flush that turd- I want a no-confidence vote (and earplugs for the laughter).

Give them HE[[, XJ!

 

[AviatorTx]

Again though, it's in the mainline carrier's best interest to have HIGH PAID feed. The more Messaba and the Pinnacle guys make, the less economical it is to replace a DC9 with a small jet.

Idiots...

 

[OPECJet]

To he!! with Woerth's sorry, pathetic, circle-jerking Union and the lackey's that suck up to him.

Half a million bones for this Viagra popping chinless wonder? What can we get for 600K? Flush that turd- I want a no-confidence vote (and earplugs for the laughter).

Give them HE[[, XJ!

Looks to me like the only vote against XJs request was from the NW rep. Everyone else who voted gave them a yes. The voters here were your elected status reps. Didn't have anything to do with Woerth, Rice, Beebe, etc.

 

[Sig]

Woerth should (but won't) kick that guy square in the satchel tonight after asking for a full explanation. Is it just mine, or did everyone else's issue of the ALPA rag just brag about this very situation for strike preparedness, as well as MAIR's underhanded declaration of bankruptcy? It is INCONSCIENABLE to refute strike pay in such a dirty situation.

HE is the leader- I mean, the guy at the top of the pile. It's his glowing turd-cutter on the line first.

 

[OPECJet]

Won't argue with ya there.

I saw the results for this on ballotpoint, but it doesn't list who voted against. How did you guys find this out? Or are you guessing?

 

[XJohXJ]

OPECjet,

Where do you go to view the results?

Thanks!

 

[AviatorTx]

OPECjet,

Where do you go to view the results?

Thanks!

Log on to https://ballotpoint.com/alpa

click on "Roll call report"

Then sort by MEC... Scroll down to NWA.

I was skeptical until I saw myself...

 

[OPECJet]

Yep, its there. I didn't realize names were attached to the results. Good way of holding us accountable though.

Same guy is / was the NWA jumpseat committee chair. Ya'll be sure and thank him the next time you see him!

Glad to see both resolutions passed though.

 

[Sig]

Won't argue with ya there.

Yeah, man. We need some Longshoreman sensibility brought back into this game, and I truly mean that. We're paying for a PAC to lobby within our own union, and it's total crap.

Now I'm obligated to open my big fat mouth fully- I hate the idea of contract carriers today. They're there to extract flying from the structure of a group under the "mainline" umbrella for cheap- but MAIR set up an airline that DOESN'T DO THAT. It's exactly what a contract carrier needs to do; it works what the mainline can't to feed itself on it's own to further the business. Mesaba did it in spades, reference the ALPA propaganda this month. They're good folks, they fly the pewp that NWA can't to get someone to DTW (for example) to get the heck elsewhere, and they do a fine job of it.

What the holding company did to insulate itself from what the airline did is smart, but to leverage that against the level of labor input and costs is dang near criminal. It's wrong, wrong and wrong again. They truly contributed to the bottom line of NWA without the expense (pilot jobs) of trading flying off of a DC9 route (for instance) to justify the model. Equipment? Scope? How about utility domain. They just won't do it.

I completely support these people in this crappy time in history, and I'm shocked that anyone drinking the Behnke-Aid Flavor Du Jour would vote no to supporting these people in such a cut-and-dried labor fight. It's atrocious.

Give. Them. He.L.L.

 

[saabservant]

I've met and talked with this back-stabbing puke, this is a real surprise.

Hope the next time i see him there are witnesses, so I won't be overcome with the urge to smash his weasle a** into the floor...

But, excuse me, I'm forgetting..."yazza boss, iza go backn' fly my saab for yuz..don' wont no troubles...thank ya, forza lettin me serves ya on ze nortwest plantation...

between this, and that sjet sell-out(anybody hear "brand scope" or "pay to play" now?) there is no doubt as to what mainline has in store for us- for years of good service...
I don't know who is worse, these guys, or the alleged mgmt. pukes who are trying to rip us off in a fraudulent bankruptcy.

BURN IT DOWN, and F*** all of these Mair, nwa Bast****!!!!

 

[IronCityBlue]

High Priced "Feed"

Again though, it's in the mainline carrier's best interest to have HIGH PAID feed. The more Messaba and the Pinnacle guys make, the less economical it is to replace a DC9 with a small jet.

Idiots...

I used to think the same thing, but now I disagree. The whole reason mainlines allowed outsourcing in the first place, the the same reason they constantly increase the number and size of aircraft to be outsourced, is to subsidize the mainline pay scales, retirement, etc. either outright or by getting "bargaining credit", etc.

If regionals were high priced, there would be that much less money in the kitty for multimillion dollar lump sum retirements, 300/hr pay and the like. I now think mainlines and ALPA nat'l want as low pay as possile for regionals. History and current events certainlly collaborate that theory at least.

 

[Sig]

If regionals were high priced, there would be that much less money in the kitty for multimillion dollar lump sum retirements, 300/hr pay and the like.

I think I follow, then I think I'm confused. Since I'm a moron to begin with, I want to know what you're thinking...

Do you mean the mainline at large pulls the strings with ALPA because of their higher wages, and therefore cut and snip flying to their best accord?? Or is it that a regional carrier is de facto an expendible group of constituents, and therefore the firstest to the altar when cuts need to be made regardless of their utility domain (they're lesser, therefore sihtty?). Heck, I could have made this easy- does the tail wag the dog?

It's a wakeup call. Labor is getting hosed here, and will continue to as a precedent until we finally stop the race to sub poverty for a tremendous job.

As regional pilots, we need to exert pressure against retarded management. As regional pilots, we haven't the salary to fill the ALPA coffers at nearly the same rate as a mainline pilot group- but we have true economic impact on their viability in a perfect world (we feed their existence). But when our agent for change advocates hanging our buttocks in the breeze to placate drooling MBA morons (no matter who voted no for strike pay), we need to light the torches and start chanting.

It's labor versus manglement. Mesaba doesn't deserve it, and we need to fight.

 

[320AV8R]

I logged onto the previous link, but was denied access to view any results.

Somebody educate me....... What does this mean ?

# Votes FOR NC
# Votes AGAINST 91
Skip NC

As far as I know, ALPA NAT'L determines who gets any MCF or strike money.... isn't that correct ? If so, what do the nimrods at NWA ALPA have to do with any strike benefits that Mesaba might get ?

There is alwys overwhelming support for the Mesaba guys at the NWA ALPA meetings..... Tom Wychor (sp) has spoken there numerous times.

Cornfused,

320AV8R

 

[PCL_128]

As far as I know, ALPA NAT'L determines who gets any MCF or strike money.... isn't that correct ? If so, what do the nimrods at NWA ALPA have to do with any strike benefits that Mesaba might get ?

The BOD (Board of Directors) makes these decisions, and that body is made up of the status reps from each LEC. Dan G. is a status rep for Council 1, and he voted his votes (1 vote for each pilot he represents) AGAINST the resolutions. I can't imagine what reason he could possibly have for this. Totally ridiculous.

 

[Dodge]

I can hear Wychor at his home muttering " I thought we were pals, I thought we were pals."

Again another lesson from the "real" pilots that it is every man for himself at ALPA. This time the catch phrase will be "Brand Unity." ha ha ha

 

[xjhawk]

when i get some time, i will loook up that guys name and call that bastard what he is, a pu$$$Y. and for you guys and gals at NWA, show some balls and call him yourself. Unless you agree with him, then you can message me and we can set up a meeting and i will persoanllly tell you what you are ......then kick your ass. This union is the worst one in the world, but its the only one i have, so i will have to just take care of one asshole at a time.......why cannot you show some support for fellow pilots, it just rakes me that people can be this way......i heard guys say that they were happy at airlines going under so that their company can get more flying.....WTF!!!!!1 anyways......

 

[D'Angelo]

when i get some time, i will loook up that guys name and call that bastard what he is, a pu$$$Y. and for you guys and gals at NWA, show some balls and call him yourself. Unless you agree with him, then you can message me and we can set up a meeting and i will persoanllly tell you what you are ......then kick your ass. This union is the worst one in the world, but its the only one i have, so i will have to just take care of one asshole at a time.......why cannot you show some support for fellow pilots, it just rakes me that people can be this way......i heard guys say that they were happy at airlines going under so that their company can get more flying.....WTF!!!!!1 anyways......

http://www.nrtw.org/d/deauth_decert_rla.htm there is your solution. IMPEACH THOSE SOBS. Know your rights you don't just have to sit there and say its the way it is. Start a decertification drive and throw ALPA on their A$$es where they belong. Tell ALPO to take a hike, you don't need em anyways.

 

[surplus1]

There is alwys overwhelming support for the Mesaba guys at the NWA ALPA meetings..... Tom Wychor (sp) has spoken there numerous times.

Cornfused,

320AV8R

Are you really that naive? Good grief!

 

[IronCityBlue]

Chicken wagging the egg, etc.

I think I follow, then I think I'm confused. Since I'm a moron to begin with, I want to know what you're thinking...

Do you mean the mainline at large pulls the strings with ALPA because of their higher wages, and therefore cut and snip flying to their best accord?? Or is it that a regional carrier is de facto an expendible group of constituents, and therefore the firstest to the altar when cuts need to be made regardless of their utility domain (they're lesser, therefore sihtty?). Heck, I could have made this easy- does the tail wag the dog?

I think it all started with the so called "jet age" in commercial aviation. Once everyone was flying the big iron, farming out little bitty turboprops became an issue of significance as well as cost. Pilot groups could have cared less, and management just wanted a little cheap feed to tiny towns where the big jets weren't going to go.

Then came the roaring late 90's and the RJ. Sure it started in the early 90's when things were relatively tough, but scope clauses were written thinking number of seats were paramount, so the new 50 seaters kinda snuck in. By the time it became an issue, things were booming like never before. Who cares is you outsource 500 barbie jets when you're hiring 60 a month into your big thick mainline vessels?

To placate the voices in the crowd who seemed to be getting alarmed, management agrees to restrictions and ratios. Like, "don't worry guys, these barbie jets can't fly between your hubs!" [like that's some sort of protection] and better yet, "give us more RJ's and we'll grow mainline, so you see, its in your best interest to sign off on more and more and more and more." 10 years after it began, the RJ revolution had grown to almost half of the block hours of mainline system flying. Not half the seat miles mind you, but half the jobs of the booming 90's had already been outsourced.

There is some truth to the statement that mainline pilots and ALPA want high priced feed. I'm sure on some level they do. If the regionals (sorry...commuters?) one day got so expensive that management came begging mainline pilot groups to take the flying back at linear pay scales, recalling all their furloughs and hiring 60 a month again, I'm sure ALPA would love it but we all know that's never going to happen.

But this outsourcing cancer which may have started as an innocent "hey let us subcontract some 19-30 seat props to fly to Maybury and back" in a short decade had become 300-500+ jets (depending on the legacy) outsourced to the lowest bidder, getting bigger and bigger jets with fewer and fewer restrictions and less and less of the mighty fleet ratios.

Now scope negotiations are merely an issue of how much are you going to give up this round to save something else for a little while, hopefuly long enough so you can retire. The only issue is how much bargaining credit the legacy pilot groups are going to recieve for this round's woerth of scope loosening. More 50 seaters to save the widebody rates. More 70 seaters so the inevitable pay cuts will maybe be smaller than otherwise. 76 seaters to hold on to a snowball's chance of keeping the retirement alive. Now farming out flying is a stopgap measure of temporary survival for the senior pilots at the legacies.

Expensive feed would screw up ALPA's whole collective bargaining model at this point. And just to make sure it doesn't happen accidentaly, management has pitted dozens of regional (commuter?) pilot groups against one another within each legacy system to keep wages low forever unless a major unified stance (above and beyond ALPA) happens, and that's not likely. The legacies have the power to change things, but it will entail additional sacrifices and they think they have bigger fish to fry so they won't do it. Look for unlimited 76/78 seaters everywhere soon, and unlimited 100 seaters (or bigger) in less than 10 years. The regionals (and cummuters, too?) are all in a position to directly benefit from anyone else who takes said stand, but they won't for that very reason.

I hope that answers your question Sig, from one moron to another! Good luck at Mesaba if that's where you're at. I feel bad for those guys and hope they can turn things around, but without a unified stance (that I don't see happening) I can't see how its possible.

On the bright side, think of how big of a bargaining credit the legacy pilots can get if they allow Mesa and dirtbag GJ to underbid eachother for unlimited 100 seaters! They can't fly between hubs for a few months of course. Gotta make it tough on management you know! Gotta love ALPA.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

one day the airlines will end up like Nike, nothing more than a brand collecting royalties for the use of it's name. Actually it's quite a good concept. Develop something then outsource everything to do with it. Now charge to use that name. Best part at this point you have basically no costs, so all those name fees are profit.

 

[320AV8R]

Are you really that naive? Good grief!

I dunno...... maybe.

The MEC chairmen from Mesaba, Pinnacle & Champion have addressed our union meetings. From everything I saw, it appeared that there was a cohesiveness among the ALPA brethren. (It was before Brokeback Mountain).

I have yet to hear of the validity of this vote from another source. If it is true, it's pretty f*ckin' sad.

ALPA.... we put the FUN in DYSFUNCTIONAL.

320AV8R

 

[D'Angelo]

Its actually probably for their own good. The NWA pilots realize a strike now is futile. Why give money to a futile effort? its kind of like people giving money to a stripper. Sure its fun to watch at first but your just more frustrated than when you started. You see it may be fun to think about a strike but in this environment it won't do a darn bit of good. Capitalism won, we lost time to move on folks. May the best man win!

 

[Rossa]

D'Angelo,

You obviously think you have all the answers. Funny how you are obviously a friend of mngt. Maybe you've never been a member of a union before (if you have, I apologize in advance), but your defeatist attitude is pathetic! Your "capitalism has won, we lost" talk, along with other precious advice is sad!
You must think you have a handle on this, that you are smarter than everyone else! The fact is that you sound like some little Dweeb whose daddy paid for his training and will continue to provide Junior with support along with answers to all union vs. mngt situations.

Why don't you STFU!!

By the way, the only way that unions succeed is through solidarity - that's why ALPA is a train wreck, but I guess you have answers to that too!

 

[Occam's Razor]

when i get some time, i will loook up that guys name and call that bastard what he is, a pu$$$Y. and for you guys and gals at NWA, show some balls and call him yourself. Unless you agree with him, then you can message me and we can set up a meeting and i will persoanllly tell you what you are ......then kick your ass.

Brave talk from someone living in his mommy's basement! (It's an anonymous Forum, leave the bluster in your "happy sock")

Threats have no place here. I thought the mods made that clear.

This union is the worst one in the world, but its the only one i have, so i will have to just take care of one asshole at a time.......

Perhaps you could start with yourself? (Just a suggestion)

Please list all the other unions that you have personal experience with, as a member.

why cannot you show some support for fellow pilots, it just rakes me that people can be this way......

My reps are responsible for supporting me first. That's not a selfish opinion...that's a fact. My reps are not your reps. If faced with a choice between your interests and mine, my reps are accountable to me. Yours are accountable to you.

See how it works?

ALPA is a "states rights" organization. Your MEC and your pilot group votes and acts on your behalf...not mine.

I think this rep made a mistake with his vote. I've already shared my opinion with him on his vote .

If you need a pound of flesh to be happy, put it on your Xmas list and maybe Santa will bring it to you. Beyond that, you now have the right to scream "Hypocrite!" if you ever hear that rep calling for loyalty from our Airlink brethren.

 

[Sig]

I think it all started with the so called "jet age" in commercial aviation. Gotta love ALPA.

That was the best post I've ever read on the subject- thanks!

FWIW, I'm not at XJ, but KY... Piedmont.

 

[xjpilot]

somebody call 911. I have been stabbed in the back by my so called brother.