MEL Question as it relates to FAR135

[rchcfi]

I'm wondering if anyone else has ever run into this one. And if so, do you have any advice. The reason for asking here is I've left more than a few messages on my local FSDO's voicemail and am just waiting for a response.

1.) According to the MMEL for the C414, MEL 34-12 states that a GPS can be inoperative as provided in the FARS.

2.) According to FAR 135.165(b) to fly IFR I have to have at least two independant receivers for navigation, which I have.

My dilemma is this: I know I can MEL an inoperative GPS. However, what if just the database is expired. Now the GPS is not inop., just expired. Could I use this to file a flight plan direct, the whole while having a secondary VOR plan. And this would only be to file direct, not shoot GPS approaches.

TIA

 

[NotFurloughed]

GPS Enroute

Please forgive me for not having the motivation to dig up the exact reference, but I believe either the AIM or an AC deals with this issue. From what I remember, you may use an approved GPS for enroute provided you check applicable NOTAMS along the route and determine that the database WP's etc are sill valid...

Can somebody back me up on this..?

 

[rchcfi]

Muchas Gracias for that......I'll do the legwork, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.



Cheers

 

[mike1mc]

Here is what I use in my MELs. This is for the FMS, but I use the same wording for the GPS Database. One word of caution, the GPS Database (or Navigation Database) must be listed in the MEL, otherwise you're MEL is less restricitng than the MMEL and the FAA probable won't go for it. Its always worth a try. Most of the newer MELs will ahve a Navigation Database item.​

​

Flight Management System (FMS) (Navigation Database):​

(O) Operations Procedure


1. Verify navigation fixes prior to dispatch by use of current Aeronautical Charts.
2. Crew will ensure by use of the NOTAM system that navigation facilities used to define route of flight are operational and suitable as a source of navigation.

3. Manually tune and identify approach navigation radios enroute. ​

 

[pilotyip]

Op Specs

Not all things are listed in the MEL. Your company must have Op Spec B-34 and B-35 to operate with an enroute GPS. The Op Spec the equipment must be IFR certified and current. Therefore without a current Nav card, the GPS would not meet the requirements of B-34/35 and you could not exercise the GPS for navigation. Therefore you could not file /I. It still be used for infromation purposes, much like a VFR only GPS.

 

[mike1mc]

This is a good point. A lot of items say "As required by FAR". Try to be specific as possible and break down Part 91 requirements from 135 requirements. It helps when you're on the road not having to dig through FARs to find the answer to a question.

 

[Rick1128]

First of all 135 states that the two independent nav receivers must be capable of receiving at least on ground based station. So they have to be either VORs or Lorans. You can't use GPS as one of these navs.


Second, the issue of data bases. Most FSDO will say they have to be current, even when you point out the relief in the MEL. They do have some good points on that regard. SIDs, STARs and Approaches. When you file /I you could get GPS/R-NAV only SIDs and STARs.

 

[rchcfi]

Thanks Gentlemen,


I appreciate the help you provided and look forward to digging more into this when I get to work today. Gotta love this site!

RCHCFI

 

[Dinger]

Here's what we used to do at Horizon in the FK28. We did not have anything special....VOR/DME is all. A few of the Captain's would bring a hand held GPS (often referred to as "Nav 3"). Once airborn, we would ask ATC for, oh say, a heading of 093 for Spokane........ATC would typically come back with approval......a little surprised at first.

It doesn't allow you to FILE direct, but you can use a out of date nav base for reference. JUST BE SURE THAT YOU REMAIN INSIDE OF THE OSV OF APPROVED NAVAIDS ALONG YOUR ROUTE OF FLIGHT FOR CLASS I NAVIGATION (operational service volume, not Standard Service Volume).

And last, make sure there are no navaids out of service you will need for class I, because you cannot substitute enroute navaids with an out of date navcard. That is of course if your Ops Specs allow enroute navaid substitution (GPS equipment specific i.e. Trimble 2000.....if anyone is still using those).