Medical certificate & 135 instruction

[Prof. ATP]

There is no possible violation here. The situation boils down to this: if an appropriately-rated and current customer wants a Seneca rental checkout, then I may legally do it (exercising the privileges of my instructor certificate), but if we hire someone to fly a Seneca then, while the flight is legal (the new hire is PIC), it does not count toward the training required in our training manual. Once the required time has passed, I may then fly with the new hire on a supplemental basis as checkride prep, etc.

Once the new hire is 135 qualified, I may even instruct on a revenue flight ("here's how we go into XYZ at night"), although I may not manipulate the controls.

This is strictly a 135 question; parts 61 and 91 are covered. The crux is the ambiguity in the use of "required" on 135.338(e). Other places refer to "required pilot flight crewmember", but unfortunately this regulation omits the word.

 

[avbug]

Okay, we're talking Seneca being flown single pilot 135, with an autopilot exemption. Got it. From your description, you also rent the aircraft for outside use.

You can do all the instruction for outside rental you like, no restrictions, so long as the pilot whom you're checking out is legally capable of being PIC, if you don't hold a medical certificate.

If you are an instructor for your 135 company and do not hold a medical certificate (legal and permissible), you may provide instruction on the ground, in a simulator and in flight without holding a medical certificate, so long as you do not act as a required crewmember.

If you are in a single pilot aircraft providing instruction to a new hire pilot, you are not a required crewmember, even though your ops manual may require some specific instruction prepatory to a checkride. The instruction may be required, but you are not a required crewmember. You only become a required crewmember when you fill fly right or left seat in an aircraft requiring two crewmembers, or when you take on a responsibility such as SIC under 135 where a SIC is required by that part. In this case you do not need to be aboard, the instruction is conducted in accordance with Part 91 and within the certificate limitations of Part 61, even though the instruction is being used for Part 135.

You do not need the medical certificate. You are not acting as a required flight crewmember. Your training flights are not being conducted under Part 135. Your aircraft does not require a second crewmember. A medical certificate is not required under Part 135 to instruct, when not acting as a required flight crewmember. There should be no distinction between a new hire receiving initial flight instruction, and one who is already one the line receiving continuing flight instruction, as the FAA and regulation make no such distinction, insofar as who may provide that flight instruction.

Once the new hire is 135 qualified, I may even instruct on a revenue flight ("here's how we go into XYZ at night"), although I may not manipulate the controls.

As for your second paragraph, quoted above, as you're not a PIC or SIC and can't act as such without a medical certificate, you're not a company check airman, a representative of the Administrator, a representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, or a representative of the United States Postal Service, are you? If not, then when operating on a revenue flight, you still can't occupy that pilot seat. This is the case weather you manipulate the controls, or not.

Seems your POI is wrong on several counts.

§ 135.113 Passenger occupancy of pilot seat.
No certificate holder may operate an aircraft type certificated after October 15, 1971, that has a passenger seating configuration, excluding any pilot seat, of more than eight seats if any person other than the pilot in command, a second in command, a company check airman, or an authorized representative of the Administrator, the National Transportation Safety Board, or the United States Postal Service occupies a pilot seat.

§ 135.115 Manipulation of controls.
No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is -
(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the aircraft; or
(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator who has the permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the aircraft, and is checking flight operations.

There is no difference between providing initial instruction for a new hire in your company Seneca, and one who is flying the line, with respect to your ability to do so without a medical certificate. Even though your operation and training program may require the instruction, the instructional training flight is NOT being conducted under Part 135, and even if it were, there is no requirement that you hold a medical certificate to provide that instruction.

Wherein lies the ambiguity?

 

[Prof. ATP]

Again, there is no question about the legality of any of these flights. The problem is that the FSDO won't let us count them towards someone's required training. This is their call and they have made it. I gather that you have not been in this situation yourself.

By the way, a Seneca has 6 seats (some had 7), and the King Air was type certificated before 1971, so I can occupy a pilot seat in either type. Can't touch the controls, though. Of course, I've done a lot of effective instruction without touching the controls.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[avbug]

Been in the situation of instructing under Part 135 without a medical? No.

Been in the situation of dealing with a POI that doesn't understand the regulation, and educating him or her? Yes.

From that vantage, it's all the same. Doesn't matter if it's a medical issue, duty issues, or any other particular...it's all the same. The POI thinks he or she knows best, and doesn't, and the avenue to educating him or her is what really counts, rather than the issue itself.

How willing you are to do that, or how capable you are in any given position to do so given status, circumstance, and the freedom to act, determines our ability to do so.

 

[transpac]

I think the rules are pretty clear that a medical certificate isn't needed to flight instruct in Part 61 and Part 135, provided the instructor isn't a required crewmember. But, there are other issues that might have a bearing on the issue. If the approved training program requires a medical certificate, that would be a binding requirement on that company. More likely, the training program requires the flight instructor to cccupy a pilot seat and to act as safety pilot during simulated IFR flight. Since much if not most Part 135 flight training happens during simulated IFR, an instructor who couldn't legally function as a safety pilot would be severely limited.

 

[Prof. ATP]

Since much if not most Part 135 flight training happens during simulated IFR, an instructor who couldn't legally function as a safety pilot would be severely limited.

We start new hires VFR only, long before they reach 135 IFR minimums, so there is really quite a bit that can be done that is not simulated IFR. The bottom line is that the POI won't approve an instructor without a medical, despite the clear legality of the flight, and instructor approval is at the POI's discretion.

 

[transpac]

We start new hires VFR only, long before they reach 135 IFR minimums, so there is really quite a bit that can be done that is not simulated IFR. The bottom line is that the POI won't approve an instructor without a medical, despite the clear legality of the flight, and instructor approval is at the POI's discretion.

While it's true that POIs approve/disapprove Part 135 instructors, they don't have authority to require anything beyond that required by the FARs. Sounds to me like an individual POI or maybe a FSDO Manager is making up his/her own rules. Have you talked to the Flight Stds Division Mgr in your region? He/she would probably be interested in local rules. If you don't agree with the Division Mgr, elevate it to AFS-1 in FAA HQ. If you don't like what AFS-1 says, take it to your congressman.

 

[nosehair]

If you don't agree with the Division Mgr, elevate it to AFS-1 in FAA HQ. If you don't like what AFS-1 says, take it to your congressman.

Ditto. Don't let'em intimidate you. Be prepared to educate up the line. I am still surprised that some of the old FAA staff still does not know that you can instruct without a medical. And there are still those that refuse to adhere to it.
...But also, be sure you are squeaky clean...
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