Mediation Statement against FLOPS

[Aspiring to be]

Interesting reading on another board about those illegally terminated for their work in trying to organizing a union by FLOPS. I tried to copy and post on this board but the file was too large. It is a statement of mediation. FLOPS had requested mediation and it will take place this next week. The evidence is strong that many at FLOPS committed perjury during their depositions.

http://pub97.ezboard.com/brtapilots look under pro union,
topic Lets make sure.

Trial date is set to begin May 10.

 

[GooseHZ]

Once more......

asspiring2B you have shown your flare for being a true union supporter by making FALSE statements in your post.......did you work at the New York times before???

Let me help you...


"Interesting reading on another board about those ALLEGEDLY illegally terminated for their work in trying to organizing a union by FLOPS. "

You see where you forgot to add the truth......mediation dose NOT automatically mean the other party is guilty.

"The evidence is strong that many at FLOPS MAY HAVE committed perjury during their deposition."


Many how many? Who? has the judge stated this and called for AMY people to come back and explain themselves for this ALLEGED perjury? Get a life Merlin......if your going to post try and be honest. How is your "FRIEND" doing.....still sending you emails?

 

[Aspiring to be]

Goose or is it ostrich !!

I have never denied my support for a union. I have never denied my support for a union at FLOPS. I do deny ever making a false statement. Not all of my opinions are shared by all by I have never posted a lie.

What false statements have I made? If you are referring to my comment, about those illegally terminated as being false because, the trial has not taken place then I can only suggest to you that you read the depositions, the Sullivan (HR) email and the Mediation Statement summated by the attorney for the plaintiffs. The proof of guilt is there for you to read. The depositions cannot be changed; the email from Sullivan for anyone with a third grade reading comprehension can only be understood as to the violation of the RLA and the rights of the plaintiffs by the way of fabricating a reason for termination.

Read the depositions of those from the FLOPS, Sullivan, Ricci, Combs, etc. Can you not see that Sullivan and boys made up the grounds for terminations? What evidence do you need to understand the guilt of FLOPS? What more do you need to understand the rights of the plaintiffs were violated by those you seem to want to protect? Why do you want to protect the guilty?

It has never been said that Mediation meant anyone was guilty. I do believe that since FLOPS requested the mediation and with the undisputable evidence and depositions that FLOPS realizes that there chances in court are extremely poor. The same reason FLOPS did not request Summary Judgment that they knew the evidence would not allow for Summary Judgment in favor of FLOPS. The plaintiffs did request Summary Judgment and the Judge due to some doubt at that time, denied it because of one item that could be said to be in doubt and that was the black list. Now with the new email the evidence of a blacklist created by managers at RTA is without doubt.

Who has lied you say? According to the attorneys’ mediation statement, Sullivan (HR), Salata (CP), Bilger (program manager), Daugherty (program manager) and I expect others that were not identified or I missed. Again, read the depositions of these people and see that they are not telling the truth. If you want to say they (FLOPS management) are telling the truth then you are saying the depositions given by the plaintiffs, Topliff, Combs, the two that witness the incident with Yeager as all being liars. You would also have to ignore the evidence such as the email from Sullivan and now Daugherty.

I would think you should be upset with those that remain in management at FLOPS that have caused so much harm to your fellow pilots when the fellow pilots did nothing wrong. The violation of the law and of human rights was committed by your management and not by the plaintiffs.

You have called me a liar; please tell me when and where. You are the one that tries to make fact into fiction. By the way, I am not Merlin.

 

[GooseHZ]

A2b

I never called you a liar. I wrote that you put false statements in you post. Every thing you say that FLOPS did is ALLEGED until the judge or jury issues a ruling. Your post assumed guilt and guilt has not been established for the alleged illegal terminations or perjury. IF the courts say that laws where broken then I totally agree that the guys who where fired need to get their fair shake. IF management acted in a unprofessional manner that needs to be addressed also. BUT, you and all the other pro-union guys/gals put these posts out here to try and make FLOPS look like a bunch of crooks and liars. INNOCENT until proven guilty. TO you its guilty no matter what and that is not the way the system works. All you are doing is trying to slander FLOPS and raise support for a union that over the last few years has lost members and has done (in my view) a piss poor job at NJ. If your going to raise question about FLOPS go ahead, but do it the right way and don’t assume guilt until the man drops the gavel and issues the ruling.

 

[Aspiring to be]

Alleged?

I am not sure how you can call what FLOPS did as being ALLEGED. The email from Sullivan should speak for itself, it is not alleged. That one item should be enough to prove to you the reason for those guys termination and that the management violated the law and their rights. I do not need a judge to open my eyes and see what is there.

How you can say “if” management acted in an unprofessional manner is not understandable to me. You are just blind to the truth. I am not trying to make some at FLOPS look like crooks and liars; they have made themselves out to be liars. I can read. I do not need a system to tell me what some at FLOPS did was wrong. I have not slander anyone, some people have brought disgrace to them selves by what they did and then by what some have said. Grow up and read the deposition and stop protecting those that have been part of this evil thing.

Tell us about the Topliff termination after he gave a very favorable deposition. You have no creditability with me because you are so blind to the truth. Do you think that the acquittal of OJ means he is innocent? There is no hidden evidence, what you see is it for the company to present. Read it man.

 

[GooseHZ]

done....

A2B,

You have your views and I have mine. You say read the Proof that’s on the net, you say I should read the emails that are posted on the Web for all to see. I would not trust ANYTHING I see on the WEB, you send me a notarized copy of this proof and then I will believe what I read on the web. If you think the pilots of FLOPS that read these boards believe 50% of the stuff posted on the web your fooling yourself. Give me proof, real proof not 3rd hand documents posted on the web that anyone can doctor up.

"You have no creditability with me"

OH WHAT SHALL I DO.... Please please give me your blessing i cant live with out it. IM done with you.



Griz,

Very good point, I have no answer but the obvious one. When I make comments about NJ I do not mean to degrade your company. I truly believe that you have a great company full of great pilots who I talk with every chance I get. I just think you guys deserve more than you are getting form your union. Please don’t take it the wrong way. Fly safe!

 

[Aspiring to be]

Goose,

It you believe the depositions, emails, letters, etc are altered in some way why not get an official copy so you can compare. You should also take into account the Sullivan email was given to the IBT attorney by FLOPS. It is not something that came from the plaintiffs. The Sullivan email is a part of the depositions; it is undeniable evidence of the wrongdoing by the management of FLOPS. The depositions are public information that is available to anyone. You can even get them on line but of course, you would not trust that as it would not be a notarized copy, it would only be certified. You could be the one to expose those that believe the facts are true. As I said before, you are really an ostrich and you have your head buried in the sand.

I believe without any doubt that the depositions that have been posted have been posted with 100% accuracy. Not one word, not one letter has been changed. Many of the depositions that have been posted were posted by a known name. Bill Tumblin, one of the plaintiffs made the post. Do you think FLOPS or the court would allow these post if they had been altered. Public information such as testimony (depositions) can be posted. I believe the only problem would be in the jury selection in that those that read the boards that make mention of the troubles at FLOPS would not be selected to serve. I do not believe FLOPS would allow false information of this nature to remain unchallenged.

You put your faith and trust in those that are not trustworthy. You support those that would not blink an eye to terminate you and the reason does not need to be justifiable. Your career, your family can be destroyed by many at FLOPS and you have no alternative. Do not tell me there is the court because that is not an available avenue unless some law can be shown to be violated. In an at-will State, there are few laws that would give you any rights at all. If you give the courts enough doubt that a law had been violated and the judge would grant you a trial there is a little matter of cost.

The cost is astronomical and beyond the reach of most of us. If not for the support of the IBT in this matter, my friends would not be able to afford the cost. You try to make the IBT look bad but they have done nothing but to bring honor to them selves over this matter. The company and management you support have done nothing but bring dishonor to them selves over this matter.

You and your family can never have security from the management for illegal termination, intimidation, etc. without the protections of a contract. You and your fellow pilots can never come close to having equal and fair treatment without a contract. You can never do away with the good old boy system without a contract. You can never have any voice or vote as to your working conditions, pay, benefits, etc without a contract. You can never have elected representation without a contract. You will never be able to speak with one voice without a contract. You will never have a meaningful contract without being part of a union. 97% of all the free worlds professional airline pilots belong to a union, Why?

 

[Muddauber]

Asp

I figure the Teamsters must be paying your salary or you wouldn't be spouting such BS. All the Unions have done a wonderful job for pilots. Charlie Bryant killed Eastern, they've turned a good $200,000 dollar a year job at US Air into a $100,000 a year job - not to mention cutting the pension from nearly $100,000 to $28,000 if your lucky enough to not have to pay money back. They managed list integration just peachy with the American/TWA merger - Oh! I forgot, they didn't and most of the TWA guys are gone. They really stood up for Northwest and UAL pilots when they needed them and IBT is helping Netjets pilots get paid Citation 2 wages for flying Falcons. Great. That's really money well spent. I also really enjoy the way the unions try to rule by intimidation. It looks like Gunfyter is trying to create a version of scab lists just for the fractional industry and updated for the internet. Just makes it a great place to work doesn't it - when you don't know who your friends are and who's a spy? Give us a break - you have always been irrelevant, now you have become tiresome.

 

[Majik]

I'm enjoying the information, pay no attention to Muddauber and keep it coming.

Sounds like he supports flying "struck work" doesn't it? He must not have much to do if he's "slumming" here at the fractional site. Why doesn't he sling his anti-union rhetoric to his SWA buddies. NJA pilots are going to come out of this just fine.

 

[Muddauber]

Army pilot -

I worked for NJI before I came to work for Southwest. I liked it. I left because I have a young family and wanted to spend more time with them. It amuses me watching you guys try to screw yourselves. Ever wonder why NetJet's Gulfstream pilots don't want a union?

 

[Diesel]

mudauber- your attiude pretty much sums up the EJI vs NJA conflict. What most EJI guys don't realize is that our hard work on the union side provides a better quality of life for the non union guys

A few cases in point-

Union got 7n7 for 50 percent of the pilots. EJI was working a 6/4 but magically they got 7n7 a couple of months ago. 1 extra day of work for 2 days off.

Hilton TEB- OUR hotel comittee worked very hard on this one. They worked with the Embassy suites to provide top notch service. Now we have it plus a hotel that actually has things and places to do around it. Once again the EJI guys get to benefit.

Changes in hotels around the system. These changes were implimented by our hotel comittee. What hotel comittee does the EJI guys have?

Our union contract. Yeah you can make all the snide remarks u want but our contract will affect EJI guys and all other fractionals. NJA fighting for a better future affects all fractional pilots. Yet negotiating a better contract is just one of the few things that we do. Hotel comittee, uniform comittee, travel comittee, compliance comittee, webteam. the list goes on.

So think about the big picture before you start saying that our union brings us nothing. It has benefited ours and yours quality of life many many times over. Oh yeah by the way did you notice that Southwest is union? How are you dealing with that?

 

[infoman]

Mudauber,

Congrats on your union job with Southwest. Be sure to thank all those pilots ahead of you on the list, as well as, former pilots. Their hard work over the years has allowed you the time home with your young family.

I with my 1800+ union brothers&sisters are working hard to make, my home, Netjets the desired place to be. I will continue to support the union as we help the Netjets too see our value.

Sorry ahead of time for the slam, but you did write you left a non- union job for a union job. My guess is SWAPA is not for looks alone.

Have a Great Day!

 

[JohnDoe]

quote from infoman:

"Mudauber,

Congrats on your union job with Southwest. Be sure to thank all those pilots ahead of you on the list, as well as, former pilots. Their hard work over the years has allowed you the time home with your young family. "


Very well said.....

I find it extremely ironic that mudauber is slamming unions, yet he is enjoying the benefits of the union at Southwest. A unionized job that he went to so that he could enjoy more time at home with his young family. (the word hypocrit comes to mind)

 

[JetCapt69]

Hypocrite? Southwest would be a good company to work for with or without a union.

Those guys and girls fly their azzes off everyday, short hops, in and out of the gate in 15 mins and they are always smiling.

Ever met a SW pilot that said they hated their job? I don't think so. If I was offered a job at Southwest, I would go fly for them even if the mafia truckdrivers union was in place, because their management knows how to run a business and treat their employees like family.

The **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** union has nothing to do with that.

 

[Aspiring to be]

"their management knows how to run a business and treat their employees like family."

I do not necessarily disagree with the above statement but why would you have a union, want a union, need a union or start a union. Are you saying the above is true because of the union or because of the above, you have a union?

 

[Live4flyng]

JetCapt69

I don't think anyone is denying the fact that SWA is a great company to work for. I think a point was trying to be made to an ex-NJI non union member that went to work for SWA. You can read the post below for yourself.

I figure the Teamsters must be paying your salary or you wouldn't be spouting such BS. All the Unions have done a wonderful job for pilots. Charlie Bryant killed Eastern, they've turned a good $200,000 dollar a year job at US Air into a $100,000 a year job - not to mention cutting the pension from nearly $100,000 to $28,000 if your lucky enough to not have to pay money back. They managed list integration just peachy with the American/TWA merger - Oh! I forgot, they didn't and most of the TWA guys are gone. They really stood up for Northwest and UAL pilots when they needed them and IBT is helping Netjets pilots get paid Citation 2 wages for flying Falcons. Great. That's really money well spent. I also really enjoy the way the unions try to rule by intimidation.

So you leave a non-union company to go and work for a unionized company that you so despise. That sounds very negative and hypocritical to me.

 

[bluepost]

Didn't mauddauber only work 6 on and 4 off? Or was it he felt forced to stay out longer and do a little butt kissing to make sure he advanced at his non union company on some of those long international trips? Maybe that is why he went to SWA where he could be just a number, upgrade when his number allowed him too, and not based on the amount of brown nosing he did. Now he can stay home and enjoy the benefits of work rules negotiatied by his union AND company.

 

[Fozzy]

Thor,

Would you mind passing the bottle over here?

 

[Muddauber]

When I worked for EJI we were flying 6 on and 5 off with the first and last day of the duty period a protected travel day. The last time I talked to Joe Murphy, he told me they were now on 7 and 7 because that's what his guys wanted to do.

Unions are pretty much a necessary evil if you want to work for an airline - they're closed shops - so I chose the least egregious one. SWAPA is not exactlly a part of our daily lives and it's a non-profit pilot's organization. From what I hear, the IBT has EJA so tied up contractually, they couldn't dump the union if they wanted to.

Muddy

 

[Aspiring to be]

The truth ?

here is no contract between the union and the members. There are rules, regulations and laws that control the interaction. So whom ever you are listening to knows very little. It is all part of the RLA. The pilots of NJ are not tied up with a contract with the IBT anymore than are the pilots of SWA with their union.