MEC Summary of Nicolau Remedy

[beagle pilot]

Am I reading this correctly? The 824 slots will be filled AFTER everyone goes back to AA who is currently on the street (1989 as I understand it), and after all the AE pilots with AA numbers (roughly 560) flow up.

Correct. The 824 was payback for the "harm" done to all those who couldn't upgrade, transition, hold a line, etc due to the fact the contract was breached by the company and 244 pilots didn't flow over when they were supposed to flow.

Since you already understand the math about recalls, you should also understand it will take a few years to even get to the point where those 824 begin to leave for AA classes. Since the arbitration also allows the company to set a max of 20 per month, it could take 5 years to have all 824 class seats filled.

 

[washout]

Beagle,

Thanks. Yeah, I figured it would be a at least few more years for all of this to happen. I suppose the remaining 824 slots are a light at the end of the tunnel for Eagle FOs and junior CAs. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Would you further agree with my guess that these 824 slots could go as low as 05/06 hires? I'm sure lots of Eagle FOs are trying to figure out that very thing right now!

 

[beagle pilot]

Would you further agree with my guess that these 824 slots could go as low as 05/06 hires? I'm sure lots of Eagle FOs are trying to figure out that very thing right now!

I haven't looked at the seniority list to compare.

Two available variables to consider are:

1) Time to captain restriction. Currently it's 10 years, but this could change and any change would likely increase the time for a bit. Any pilot who is 55 now and not part of the 244 won't flow. Any pilot who is at a seniority level which will him/her at 55 by the time their turn comes up won't be able to flow.

2) Age again. How likely is it that a pilot over 50 will give up a $100,000/year job to be stapled to the bottom of an airline seniority list at $35K/year? They'll lose $100K of income the first two years and it would take 8 years just to break even. This isn't counting going on reserve and commuting. How likely is it that a 45 year old with two college age kids would do it?

Of course, the higher the numbers of both 1 and 2 turn out, the more likely you'll see pilots hired in 2005 and 2006 becoming eligible to take one of the 824 seats.

BTW, remember, this all will happen when AA begins hiring. If this goes like last time, the 824 is a gimmee and Eagle only has to let 20 go per month. There is nothing to stop a pilot from applying to AA "through the front door" and take one of the other 50%+ seats in the class. There are dozens of Eagle pilots at AA who went over through the hiring process between 1997 and 2001. Every one of them was out of seniority order.

 

[Snapperhead]

I'm sure you all will be welcomed with open arms. Welcome to AA, hope you weren't that d.bag checkairman that hosed so many flowbacks, because your days are numbered.
By the way, The Time To Captain (TTC) has got to be around 15 years now.

 

[shroomwell]

So let me get this right. If someone is in the 244, say near the bottom of it. It may take several years for them to go to AA. However during those several year they are accruing pay, retirement, vacation, etc at AA's contract.

 

[shroomwell]

Just reread it. 35 go immediately. Then they recall the other 1700 pilots, then get to the rest of the 244.

Therefore these guys could be accruing benefits for 10 years.

 

[beagle pilot]

Just reread it. 35 go immediately. Then they recall the other 1700 pilots, then get to the rest of the 244.

Therefore these guys could be accruing benefits for 10 years.

Could be, but more likely the remaining 244 will be accruing for about another year or two. Check page 16 again***. It only talks about those pilots furloughed last February, not all the furloughed pilots. The 244 will probably start leaving in 2 years and be gone in 3 years given no catastrophes. It's the non-244 FTs and other Eagle pilots who will have to wait about 5 years before beginning to flow.

***Page 16:

Following the aforesaid transfer, before any additional CJ Captains
are transferred, recalls to AA shall be administered in accordance with
the AA/APA Agreement based on the AA seniority list as of the date of
this Award until the most junior pilot furloughed on February 28, 2010
has been offered recall.
Following that offer and recall, the remaining Eagle CJ Captains
with AA numbers who elect to transfer when and as future positions
become available and those AA pilots presently on furlough shall be
entitled to enter and re-enter active service at American in AA seniority
order.

 

[rjacobs]

Are these 824 going to be like the PIG guys at XJT? Preferential interview? Or do they actually have to be hired and put into class?

With this 1:2 language it could actually hurt you all. I wasnt around during our(XJT's) flow-through agreement, but I know guys who I fly with that said we had more guys hired monthly at CAL after the flow-through expired than were allowed when it was in place. I think the Compass guys are looking at their flow-through limitation of like 1:3 or something like that as a problem and wish it wasnt in there.

 

[Smoke Toliet]

Are these 824 going to be like the PIG guys at XJT? Preferential interview? Or do they actually have to be hired and put into class?

With this 1:2 language it could actually hurt you all. I wasnt around during our(XJT's) flow-through agreement, but I know guys who I fly with that said we had more guys hired monthly at CAL after the flow-through expired than were allowed when it was in place. I think the Compass guys are looking at their flow-through limitation of like 1:3 or something like that as a problem and wish it wasnt in there.

Completely agree, flow-throughs never work as advertised. It seems like a complete waste of bargaining capital. XJT to Cal or ASA to Delta, both when hiring had huge numbers go over. More than any flow-through could compete with.

 

[ualdriver]

Could be, but more likely the remaining 244 will be accruing for about another year or two. Check page 16 again***. It only talks about those pilots furloughed last February, not all the furloughed pilots. The 244 will probably start leaving in 2 years and be gone in 3 years given no catastrophes. It's the non-244 FTs and other Eagle pilots who will have to wait about 5 years before beginning to flow.

***Page 16:

What was this arbitration concerning? What was the case in a nutshell?