MEC Summary of Nicolau Remedy

[shroomwell]

Just reread it. 35 go immediately. Then they recall the other 1700 pilots, then get to the rest of the 244.

Therefore these guys could be accruing benefits for 10 years.

 

[beagle pilot]

Just reread it. 35 go immediately. Then they recall the other 1700 pilots, then get to the rest of the 244.

Therefore these guys could be accruing benefits for 10 years.

Could be, but more likely the remaining 244 will be accruing for about another year or two. Check page 16 again***. It only talks about those pilots furloughed last February, not all the furloughed pilots. The 244 will probably start leaving in 2 years and be gone in 3 years given no catastrophes. It's the non-244 FTs and other Eagle pilots who will have to wait about 5 years before beginning to flow.

***Page 16:

Following the aforesaid transfer, before any additional CJ Captains
are transferred, recalls to AA shall be administered in accordance with
the AA/APA Agreement based on the AA seniority list as of the date of
this Award until the most junior pilot furloughed on February 28, 2010
has been offered recall.
Following that offer and recall, the remaining Eagle CJ Captains
with AA numbers who elect to transfer when and as future positions
become available and those AA pilots presently on furlough shall be
entitled to enter and re-enter active service at American in AA seniority
order.

 

[rjacobs]

Are these 824 going to be like the PIG guys at XJT? Preferential interview? Or do they actually have to be hired and put into class?

With this 1:2 language it could actually hurt you all. I wasnt around during our(XJT's) flow-through agreement, but I know guys who I fly with that said we had more guys hired monthly at CAL after the flow-through expired than were allowed when it was in place. I think the Compass guys are looking at their flow-through limitation of like 1:3 or something like that as a problem and wish it wasnt in there.

 

[Smoke Toliet]

Are these 824 going to be like the PIG guys at XJT? Preferential interview? Or do they actually have to be hired and put into class?

With this 1:2 language it could actually hurt you all. I wasnt around during our(XJT's) flow-through agreement, but I know guys who I fly with that said we had more guys hired monthly at CAL after the flow-through expired than were allowed when it was in place. I think the Compass guys are looking at their flow-through limitation of like 1:3 or something like that as a problem and wish it wasnt in there.

Completely agree, flow-throughs never work as advertised. It seems like a complete waste of bargaining capital. XJT to Cal or ASA to Delta, both when hiring had huge numbers go over. More than any flow-through could compete with.

 

[ualdriver]

Could be, but more likely the remaining 244 will be accruing for about another year or two. Check page 16 again***. It only talks about those pilots furloughed last February, not all the furloughed pilots. The 244 will probably start leaving in 2 years and be gone in 3 years given no catastrophes. It's the non-244 FTs and other Eagle pilots who will have to wait about 5 years before beginning to flow.

***Page 16:

What was this arbitration concerning? What was the case in a nutshell?

 

[beagle pilot]

Are these 824 going to be like the PIG guys at XJT? Preferential interview? Or do they actually have to be hired and put into class?

With this 1:2 language it could actually hurt you all.

Preferential hiring. We had 1:2 clause in Letter 3, but the language wasn't sufficient to enforce it. This arbitration is clear about the issue and states so in two places. Here is one of them:

The affected Parties are directed to enter into a
preferential hiring agreement pursuant to which
American, at the time hiring resumes, will offer to
824 Eagle Captains, including Eagle Rights
Captains, one of every two new hire positions in a
new hire class in order of Eagle seniority, subject
21
to the following limitation. Eagle is to make every
attempt to release a sufficient number of pilots to
meet the aforesaid ratio. It will not, however, be
required to release more than 20 pilots per month
if doing so would, in its judgment, create severe
operational difficulties.
Should any of the present day Eagle Captains
decline the above offered pilot position
opportunity, an Eagle pilot who becomes a
Captain after the date of this Award, shall have
the right to elect said opportunity in seniority
order until such time as 824 pilot positions have
been filled by Eagle Captains pursuant to this
paragraph.
Jurisdiction will be retained in the event there
is any dispute regarding the interpretation or
application of this Award.

 

[beagle pilot]

What was this arbitration concerning? What was the case in a nutshell?

Resolving the issue of recall order in a mutual, but now expired, agreement between ALPA, APA and the two airlines regarding flow back and flow through of pilots between the two airlines.

There have been at least a half dozen grievances regarding this agreement. The agreement is called "Letter 3" by Eagle ALPA and "Supplement W" by APA.

 

[ualdriver]

Resolving the issue of recall order in a mutual, but now expired, agreement between ALPA, APA and the two airlines regarding flow back and flow through of pilots between the two airlines.

There have been at least a half dozen grievances regarding this agreement. The agreement is called "Letter 3" by Eagle ALPA and "Supplement W" by APA.

Thanks.

 

[N60OSU]

It's worth mentioning that, as part of the remedy, FTs get the opportunity to undo their election to flow. May 24 is the deadline for electing to keep thier number or surrender it, and that decision is irrevocable. 527 Eagle CAs with AA numbers. I'm not going to speculate how many of them will now choose to decline an AA opportunity, but the 244 in question are also the most senior, thus with the most to lose.

 

[Flightdawg]

Some would say the most to gain.

 

[beagle pilot]

Some would say the most to gain.

Agreed. From the arbitration:

As stated, the 244 Eagle CJ Captains who choose to transfer to
American should have been at the Company earlier; the first on June 6,
2007, and the remainder on the July 3, 2007-March 18, 2009, class
dates at the pace measured by the class attendance of the remaining
243 TWA-LLC pilots. The retroactivity of the compensation and benefits
to be offered has been determined with those dates in mind.

In some respects, for those lower on the 244 list, the longer it takes for them to flow, the better. Within reason, of course. Also, the longer it takes, IMHO, the more likely they will flow too. Again, within reason.

Third year MD-80 FO pay is $90/hour. Given that the APA is very likely to see a nice pay bump (albeit at the cost of stagnation), I'd go over for that amount of money given the other benefits and QOL of the APA's Green Book.

 

[beagle pilot]

Last revelation from Nicolau is that the Time To Captain estimate will remain 10 years for the 244 (286).