McCaskill-Bond Seniority Integration Legislation

[gt1900]

If SWA just gets rid of F9 there is nothing F9's contract is going to do. Thats what you don't get. SWA can get rid of all the gates on the A concourse and take the freed up gates on the C concourse. They can simply shut F9 down. They don't have to take any assets, any employees, nothing! They paid just over $100 million to get rid of 1 of the 2 competing airlines in DEN. Thats a pretty good price to pay when you know you can make it up easily in the long run. What you don't realize is that SWA and F9 overlap so much in the DEN market now that it woulnd't be seen as taking over routes. They can add flights to SWA and dump flights from F9. There is a way around FAPA's contract. And you can bet that SWA will use that if they decide to! I haven't read it, but from what I understand MEH violated their contract with the MEH pilots. Contracts get violated everyday, and the person with the most money usually wins. SWA has the most money! I'm not saying its fair, but its the way things work. How many times has AAI viloated our contract? How many times have all the airlines violated their own contracts. Thats what I mean when I say you don't get it. Im sure SWA has great lawyers, and they will find away around FAPA's contract!

 

[Empennage]

A few things, I doubt you will see a "transfer of assets" while operating both airlines independently.

Also, nobody has mentioned it, but all SWAPA has to do at some point (if common elements are used), is make a petition to the NMB for single carrier status.

Most of us, which have a stake in this, are cautiously optimistic.

 

[regionaltard]

So who is a lawyer here?

Why, everyone. Next question please?

 

[NuGuy]

Whew...flying into main hub airports, rejected TAs, money losing quarters, high labor costs and now a merger with potential SLI problems.

SWA sounds more like a legacy every day...welcome to the club...here's your sign....

Nu

 

[PCL_128]

If SWA just gets rid of F9 there is nothing F9's contract is going to do. Thats what you don't get. SWA can get rid of all the gates on the A concourse and take the freed up gates on the C concourse. They can simply shut F9 down. They don't have to take any assets, any employees, nothing!

You're skipping a step. In order for SWA to do all of that, they first have to acquire F9, and the acquisition would require them to accept the terms of the FAPA contract.

I haven't read it, but from what I understand MEH violated their contract with the MEH pilots.

Not quite true. The MEH scope language was incredibly weak. It wasn't violated, because it just wasn't there.

 

[gt1900]

You don't think theres loopholes? They pay lawyers a LOT of money to be able to find loopholes. This will be a walk in the park for SWA.

 

[mt2]

You're skipping a step. In order for SWA to do all of that, they first have to acquire F9, and the acquisition would require them to accept the terms of the FAPA contract.

Of course WN has said that the deal is subject to getting labor agreements with FNT groups:

"Even if our bid is accepted and approved by the bankruptcy court, our closing on this transaction will be subject to several contingencies. These will include the negotiation of acceptable labor agreements dealing with the interim period of separate operation and seniority"

GK is a smart man and WN is a very smart and shrewd Company. I'm certain they have done their homework and know what they need to make this work in the best interest of Southwest Airlines. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out over the next few months.

 

[PCL_128]

You don't think theres loopholes? They pay lawyers a LOT of money to be able to find loopholes. This will be a walk in the park for SWA.

With that sort of mentality, you might as well just give up, get rid of the unions, and take whatever management gives you. I doubt that's what you'd really like to do, though.

Yes, management pays lawyers lots of money to try to find loopholes, but that doesn't mean that they are always successful. You're here at AirTran, so you're obviously very familiar with the Twomey arbitration. Management paid a lot of money to try to argue that case, and they thought they'd be successful, but it didn't turn out very well for them. They've paid millions of dollars that they thought their lawyers would be able to get them out of. In reality, unions win about 50% of contract interpretation arbitrations, and 75% of disciplinary arbitrations. Management obviously has more money, but as you can see, that doesn't really translate to always winning. Don't give up before the battle is fought.

 

[gt1900]

With that sort of mentality, you might as well just give up, get rid of the unions, and take whatever management gives you. I doubt that's what you'd really like to do, though.

Yes, management pays lawyers lots of money to try to find loopholes, but that doesn't mean that they are always successful. You're here at AirTran, so you're obviously very familiar with the Twomey arbitration. Management paid a lot of money to try to argue that case, and they thought they'd be successful, but it didn't turn out very well for them. They've paid millions of dollars that they thought their lawyers would be able to get them out of. In reality, unions win about 50% of contract interpretation arbitrations, and 75% of disciplinary arbitrations. Management obviously has more money, but as you can see, that doesn't really translate to always winning. Don't give up before the battle is fought.

This coming from a guy who stole a job from someone because he paid to sit in the right seat of an airplane that should have had a pilot who was being paid for the exact same job! PRICELESS!

 

[PCL_128]

This coming from a guy who stole a job from someone because he paid to sit in the right seat of an airplane that should have had a pilot who was being paid for the exact same job! PRICELESS!

So much for an intelligent conversation.

 

[FDJ2]

GK is a smart man and WN is a very smart and shrewd Company. I'm certain they have done their homework and know what they need to make this work in the best interest of Southwest Airlines.

I'm sure GK is a smart and shrewd man, and I'm sure he will make this work in the best interest of Southwest Airlines, but that may not necessarily be in the best interest of SWAPA.

Best road forward is for FAPA and SWAPA to work this out between themselves, get a negotiated list, arbitrated if need be and a JCBA before DCC.

 

[Flying the Line]

Gary will give SWAPA the TA that they want if SWAPA decides to play nice with FAPA. SWA is shrewdly playing both sides.

 

[C Festerpuss]

Way back when there was this Texas operation, I can't remember the name, but they operated MD-80's.

SWA bought that outfit because it was operating between Houston and Dallas and a few other important SWA cities. SWA bought the outfit and shut it down and laid off all the employees.

It has been done before and it could happen again. SWA could gain control of gates and assets for a Chapter 11 price. You can buy market share with a fare war or you can buy it from a distressed competitor. American did this with TWA.

It is probably less expensive in the long run to buy Frontier, shut it down, and take the gates and other unencumbered assets and now SWA will have a major presence in Denver with only one weaker competitor, United.

I could happen, I hope it doesn't but it could.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Whew...flying into main hub airports, rejected TAs, money losing quarters, high labor costs and now a merger with potential SLI problems.

SWA sounds more like a legacy every day...welcome to the club...here's your sign....

Nu

No kidding! It definitely isn't Herb's airline any more!