Maybe DELTA needs to pull out of ATL too

[General Lee]

Fins,

I wish we could, but last time we tried to turn down greenslips (overtime)---we LOST in court. How? Good question. I can't believe that we are FORCED to do overtime. I have not ever gotten a greenslip, nor asked for one. Others have their own opinions, and that is up to them. I do want our furloughs back sooner than later, and I hope we can get our manning problem fixed with extra pilots, not extra greenslips. We shall see.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

General, I remember telling you that many retirements was impossible and I stand corrected. I hope you moved up a bunch of numbers!

 

[no_land_3]

Again, you can tell me how this correlates, but it appears some Delta pilots are getting - drum roll please - T W E N T Y years of my pay, on top of what even money was already set aside for doing, er' uhm' nothing!?!

You guys are going to have to find something else to complain about rather than Executive Compensation. That DOG won't hunt.

Fins,

I'll be one of those 205 guys getting paid $XXX.XX/hr "...for doing, er' uhm' nothing!?!" It's the least that is due me and my fellow furloughees (along with 6 months of back pay) because of what this "talented team" of executives have put us and our families through these past 6 months.

Waste of money? Absolutely! However, management brought it on themselves with their short sightednesss and lack of planning...same with the mass exodus/early retirements.

DL is severely undermanned in several categories...not the pilot groups fault. We have pilots willing and able to fly. Instead of putting us to work, the company is cancelling Christmas Vacations...nice 'eh? DL is hemoraging because management chooses to bleed it.

DALPA has filed another grievance because the co. has not been in compliance with minimum staffing levels based on our manning formula (since May 1st)...that confirms that our furlough was unnecessary. Also, management has not been in compliance with block hours with respect to our international code-share partners.

My position is that we should not even be at the table until we have full contractual compliance. Management also needs to address our, as my MEC puts it, "philisophical differences."

As far as Executive Compensation...that dog will hunt with many DL pilots. We have a contract that is not amendable until '05. No need to open it earlier. NO concessions.


land_on_3

 

[Tim47SIP]

FDJdood

I've got to raise the BS flag on this one. There is NO limit on the number of 70 seaters that DAL can operate. There is only a limit on how many can be outsourced. If DAL needs more RJ70s we have plenty of pilots who could fly them. Unless of course you would prefer that we allow DAL to outsource that flying to the lowest bidder.

You guys spout this stuff out all of the time. But as I have brought up in past posts, your MEC does NOT want any aircraft less than 100-110 seats. When asked about putting 70 and 90 seat aircraft on mainline or in a subsidiary for the furloughed guys he stated that:
1. The payrates would be to low. There would be nothing we could do to prevent Delta from buying a whole bunch of them and increasing the number of small jets while decreasing the number of large jet positions.
2. We do not want any type of intermediate company to place these small jets for the furloughed pilots to fly because of the Express scenario with different pay rates for pilots on the same seniority list.

I for one am all for the furloughed guys flying any additional 70+ seaters. I just dont think DALPA will let them on the property for the pay needed to keep them profitable. I think an additional subsidiary with seperate seniority numbers would work where all of the undesired 70+ aircraft would be placed, seperate pay rates and work rules, furloughed Delta pilots would bid to fly them and any unfilled Cpt positions could be filled by ASA/Comair Cpts bidding up or Delta pilots bidding down. But then we are right back at the age old problem of gaining to many small jet positions and loosing large jet salaries. Bottom line here is that something has to be done OTHER THAN J4J so Delta can remain competitive. Keeping their hands tied or farming out more flying is not the answer.

As far as those additional 45 aircraft, I can't see Delta buying any more 50 seat RJ's. 70+ seaters maybe. I personally think that ASA is already the cheaper one of the DCI carriers. But if we do manipulate our contract to secure these aircraft, it will create one hell of a rift with the Comair folks. To bad we couldn't just split them up, although ASA has been fairly stagnant over the last year or so. Those 45 aircraft would put us close to Comairs size and we could hire a bunch of the Delta furloughed guys. I do have a bad feeling that Shttytaco will get the contract with 145's. Who knows? Will be an interesting next year.

 

[FDJ2]

Re: FDJdood

I've got to raise the BS flag on this one. There is NO limit on the number of 70 seaters that DAL can operate. There is only a limit on how many can be outsourced. If DAL needs more RJ70s we have plenty of pilots who could fly them. Unless of course you would prefer that we allow DAL to outsource that flying to the lowest bidder.

You guys spout this stuff out all of the time. But as I have brought up in past posts, your MEC does NOT want any aircraft less than 100-110 seats. When asked about putting 70 and 90 seat aircraft on mainline or in a subsidiary for the furloughed guys he stated that:
1. The payrates would be to low. There would be nothing we could do to prevent Delta from buying a whole bunch of them and increasing the number of small jets while decreasing the number of large jet positions.
2. We do not want any type of intermediate company to place these small jets for the furloughed pilots to fly because of the Express scenario with different pay rates for pilots on the same seniority list.

Who said that? What's your source? The bottom line is there is NO limitation on RJ deployment in the DAL PWA. There is only a limitation on outsourcing of RJ flying to the lower bidders.

 

[General Lee]

Skykid,

I was surprised too. The company had known for awhile that many people were looking at retirement---in fact, the pilots interested in retirement had to call Delta and ask for the paperwork to be ready well in advance---so Delta knew that the Gatt rate was getting lower and there could be an influx of early outs. They actually knew about it in early March---and just watched along with the pilots as the Gatt rate went lower and lower until they knew that Oct 1st would have an increase----which meant that Sept 1st would be the lowest, and pilots would bail out. I talked to a 777 check airman in June and he said the company thought that 150 total would leave--and it ended up 281 on Sept 1st (not counting others leaving in AUG etc). It was a shock.


TIM47SIP,

Yes, it would be nice if ASA/Comair could do all of the DCI flying since Delta owns them, but this opportuntiy for management to get the lowest price from the lowest bidder is one that they may never see again, and they know that. You are probably right about Dalpa not going after NEW 70 seaters, and I honestly don't know when there will be new orders for them. Maybe Dalpa will work out something with managment, but there would have to be something in there for eventual recalls or help for the furloughs. We can't overlook them in their time of need----the job market sucks and THEY NEED HELP. I don't know if Dalpa will go for J4J in those 45 new RJs if Chataqua or someone else (I hope NOT Mesa) gets them, but that may be one way to get them back into the cockpit. That would all have to be worked out, but ASA has helped our guys in the past, and I hope they get the new ones----let's just not sell the farm in the process. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Wats]

General,
You could not be more RIGHT!!! Sqiggley line dude, sorry but DAL has gotta live up to their agreement! And all DAL flying should be done by DAL pilots! You guys really need to negotiate a scope clause that allows ZERO OUTSOURCING!