MAPD grads getting hired?

[secks]

Hey,

I've been seriously considering attending the MAPD program. This route seems attractive, since it offers the chance to grab a f/o seat right out of flight school. Anyone know what the current hiring situation is? Are MAPD grads going to a pool? How long is the wait? Thanks.

 

[OnTheDole]

Hiring like no tomarrow
MAPD grads are getting jobs and I don't think there is a pool any longer = no wait

 

[the turtle]

he's correct....a friend I recommended six months ago (non-MAPD) just got an interview end of this month. As I undrstand it, MAPD grads had interview priority. Guess they're all on board.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Hey,

I've been seriously considering attending the MAPD program. This route seems attractive, since it offers the chance to grab a f/o seat right out of flight school. Anyone know what the current hiring situation is? Are MAPD grads going to a pool? How long is the wait? Thanks.

Secks,

I personally feel that in the long run you will be a much more proficient, safe, and confident pilot if you earn your certificates and ratings at a traditional FBO (for a fraction of the cost), flight instruct for awhile, move on to 135 charter or freight, and then pursue the 121 job. Ab initio programs are quite a temptation in the formulative stages of a career because it allows a quicker career progression; I understand that the desire to move along as quickly as possible can be quite an influential force. I can only tell you from personal experience that I am much more confident as a pilot after having flown by myself in all kinds of weather than I would be if I only had a minimum number of hours with somebody else in the other seat with me all the time.

This is not at all flame bait; just an observation from somebody who has been to the same fork in the road, so to speak. Best of luck in whatever path you choose.

 

[ArcherB]

Do you think there is any type of program i could enter to improve my chances of getting on? I already have all my ratings but maybe some type of interview prep course or something to move my resume up the stack ?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: Re: MAPD grads getting hired?

I personally feel that in the long run you will be a much more proficient, safe, and confident pilot if you earn your certificates and ratings at a traditional FBO (for a fraction of the cost), flight instruct for awhile, move on to 135 charter or freight, and then pursue the 121 job. Ab initio programs are quite a temptation in the formulative stages of a career because it allows a quicker career progression; I understand that the desire to move along as quickly as possible can be quite an influential force. I can only tell you from personal experience that I am much more confident as a pilot after having flown by myself in all kinds of weather than I would be if I only had a minimum number of hours with somebody else in the other seat with me all the time.

No disagreement from me except that after a few hundred hours of CFI time the personal benefit you get levels off. 135 time is great IF you can find a place that's hiring and maintains the airplanes well and pays you something you can live on. Coming from that background I can tell you the things a pilot will lack when moving to a 121 turbine job for the first time are crew coordination skills and dealing with the scheduled environment. Pointing the airplane the right direction is the easy part. Many "ab initio" programs are simply ways of getting new pilots to part with money. Many do provide good training and do what they say they will do for you though.

 

[F-eagle]

What is MAPD? Getting hired were?

 

[FMR_RGNL_PLT]

Kingairkiddo,

I don't meen to pick on you, but i've heard the "you really should fly, 135 freight for awhile to make you a real pilot before you move on to 121........" crap for a long time. When i went through my Indoc ground school I had minimum time and had basically done only flight instructing. I heard alot of crap, but when it came right down to it I did better than most on the written tests and I made it through the sim-traiinng and checkrides with no problems.

I realize that you had to put up with alot flying 135 and you like to think that experience puts you head and shoulders above pilots who haven't, but statistics just don't bear that out. People who have flown 135 want other people to go through it because they feel everyone should have to bear the pain that they did. Not necessarily because the experience was so valuabe and important.

To the person who started the thread.........,

I say if you have the cash go for the program that is going to put you into the 121 professional flying environment ASAP. In this business timing is everything! If I had made it into the regional a year earlier I would probably still be there, instead I flight instructed for a year and a half.....................

Remember the flying we do, isn't like flying in the Battle of Britain during WW2! The training you get at an expensive "academy" will be comparable to what you would get at a local FBO the main advantage is it will get you into that regional F/O seat sooner!

Good Luck!

 

[OldManPilot]

Many of you do get hired with few hours. I think if you can get in that way great. But, someway or other you will get experience. What flying part 135 and other types of flying does, is "Real World Experience".

Someone once told me, and take a minute to think about it, "You don't know what you don't know." The only way you get to know is through experience. So while it is great that many of you get hired with low time, don't scoff at pilots that have alot of experience. You can, and will lear alot because you don't know what you don't know, and that is where experience really counts. A simulator can only show you so much, the rest, including real life problems and emergency's, happen and only prior experience and training will come to your aid.

So when a captain, or senior pilot tries to share some knowledge with you, listen up. it may someday save your life.

 

[stillaboo]

People who have flown 135 want other people to go through it because they feel everyone should have to bear the pain that they did. Not necessarily because the experience was so valuabe and important.

135 flying is good experience for 121 flying, IMO. Way better than sitting in the right seat of a trainer going around the patch. It may not show in the sim or at GS, but it shows in decision-making and real world flying on-line.

I say if you have the cash go for the program that is going to put you into the 121 professional flying environment ASAP

Research your options before you spend the $. There are many programs out there that do not deliver on their promises of 121 flying at the end, and there are some that do it by having you rent out the right seat of an airliner to gain experience. Critcism of the 2nd option abounds on this board, at least.

 

[FMR_RGNL_PLT]

I for one enjoyed flying with the very senior guys at our company. They were friendly, helpful, and willing to provide advice and encouragement. I agree that hard IFR time is valuable. I for one am willing to accept constructive criticism.

My only irritation was with the guys who had to puff out there chests and brag about their 135 flying experiences, as if they had just come back from flying bombing missions in Vietnam! It may be valuable, but certainly not a requrement to become a good/safe airline pilot.

As far as flight training options, I don't suggest PFT, I mean if a regional is going to hire you, especially considering the modest wages, they should be willing to pay for your training.

On the other hand if your starting out, and you can combine obtaining your initial ratings with experience in larger aircraft that is going to lead directly to a 121 flying opportunity I say seriously consider it. As the previous poster said, make darn sure that the opportunity to move up to a regional seat is close to a certainty before you lay down the bucks!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Pay a big pile of money, and end up at mesa. Pure rich kid mentality, get ahead at any cost, DO IT NOW. Spend that money, your parents will cough up more while you sit in the right seat of that 1900, too poor to pay attention, much less your bills. I pity the poor fool who goes from the instructor seat in a GA aircraft directly to a 121 gig. The most fun I have had in an airplane was on the way to the 121 gig(only been doing 121 for 5+ years). 3 years as a single pilot 135 freight dog(BE99), I delivered A/C all over the North American continent prior.
Saw more of the country than I ever knew existed. Adventure +++, The pilot path should be fun, exciting, interesting and most of all an adventire. 121 is interesting and kinda fun, it's the flying prior that I remember the most fun! Flying the 206 into Matzalan after 4hrs of hard actual to an ILS and touchdown, walking to the tower to close the flight plan, and seeing an iguana on the chainlink fence and thinking "why dont those kids put their toys away", then realizing that it was a live critter.
Enjoy the road, the path is littered with bitter, sad pilots who never got to experience the true freedom of the pilot life. 'nuff said you are gonna do what your gonna do, I do thank you for prompting me to relive a small slice of the most fun part of my career. P.S. If you end up at mesa remember it was your choice no one elses.
PBR

 

[EternalOptimist]

If you can afford MAPD I think you should go this route. I may be a little biased but my husband went through the MAPD program and was hired on at Mesa Airlines with just under 300 hours of flight time. He got a little bit of a late start in flying because he got his 4 year degree first and then spent a couple of years working and saving money for flight school (he was not born into a wealthy family) while he was researching flight schools. He stumbled on MAPD by accident but it turned out to be the best route. It has been a tough road. MAPD was a tough program back when he went through it (I can't vouch for it these days but I think it's still fairly good) and working for Mesa was no picnic. But being a little on the older side he couldn't afford to spend time building hours as a CFI. He graduated from MAPD, got hired by Mesa Airlines almost immediately thereafter and 5 years later he interviewed with Alaska Airlines and was hired. He has now been with Alaska Airlines for 7 months and is loving life. He went from no flight time to First Officer at Alaska in about 7 years. Not too shabby. I don't think everyone has the same experience but I don't know of any other flight school that offers such great potential opportunities.

 

[secks]

Pay a big pile of money, and end up at mesa. Pure rich kid mentality, get ahead at any cost, DO IT NOW. Spend that money, your parents will cough up more while you sit in the right seat of that 1900, too poor to pay attention, much less your bills. I pity the poor fool who goes from the instructor seat in a GA aircraft directly to a 121 gig. The most fun I have had in an airplane was on the way to the 121 gig(only been doing 121 for 5+ years). 3 years as a single pilot 135 freight dog(BE99), I delivered A/C all over the North American continent prior.

Paying a pile of money for excellent training and the chance to fly for an airline is "rich kid mentality"? Grow up. You assume that everyone at MAPD has parental assistance. Wrong. I wouldn't. You assume that everyone who goes through MAPD and lands a job will be poor for years. Wrong. Ever heard of working part-time/saving money before school?

You did the 135 freight route. Good for you. You enjoyed it. Good for you. Now what in the hell does this have to do with people who desire to fly for a regional, and eventually a major as quickly as possible? It may very well be that 135 is excellent training for 121. Does that mean that everyone who flies for a regional should have 135 experience? Of course not.

The fact is that you shouldn't project your ambitions and tastes upon others' choices in life. Of course, this is exactly what you've done. By the way, it wasn't "fun" you were venting off; it was bitterness.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Secks,
Based upon your quick and acidic response and your complete lack of qualifications(see listed quals), you are the one who is venting. I have enjoyed my career and I am not bitter about any of the aforementioned career, if I was I would do something else. My statement/intent was and still is, there is no "shortcut" to being a pilot, airline or any other. I think back when I had 300 hrs and compare to now(6000+) and I can safely say I wasn't ready to fly pax at .77/35000, those years flying freight, self dispatching, doing my own wx, filing alternates made me aware of the complexities of the system. Experience is what makes a pilot able to draw back into the bag-o-tricks and do what is necessary to complete the day safely and legally.
have a nice day
PBR

 

[secks]

PBR,

You basically insinuated that everyone who takes the MAPD route is a spoiled, rich brat. Then you go on to complain that they're making a bad decision, since you enjoyed another route. I called you out on it, and you say I'm venting?

KingAirKiddo conveyed his (similar) opinion in a much more tactful way.

Reread your first post. Your argument hinged on having fun doing 135 ops. That's not a very good argument for why pilots should do 135 before 121. That's why I took issue.

I do agree with your most recent post. Most 300 hours students aren't ready for the regionals. MAPD grads? Maybe, maybe not. They seem to be doing pretty well, though. Some 135 definitely can't hurt, but after how many months of that does the law of dimishing returns kick in?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Tact is not my strong point, when people want to take the "easy" way to a career just by paying an expensive fee and getting an interview by virtue of passing a credit check and meeting some criteria, thats where I have issue. I want the people I have to sit next to to be Captain material on the first day of the job, they just might have to exert that level of skill, knowledge, ability on that very day, when the goose comes thru the captain's wind screen, rendering him/her unconcious. I would not want my wife flying on that day if I knew that the F/O only had 300hrs. and just came off of IOE. The people in the back are paying for two airline pilots not one and a trainee. Just because you can fly the plane are you really ready to fly the plane?
Think about it, would you want your loved ones flown by inexperienced crews?
Experience can't be bought, it's paid for with sweat and effort. this isnt about freight vs cfi, it's about quality experience. Spending your days/nights instructing people who seem to always want to kill you by accident, flying freight to airports in cruddy wx, delivering junk a/c to weird and strange places, __________ fill in anything into the box that causes you to do something(flying) different, and causes you to learn(experience) something new to add to your toolbox(skills). these things can't be bought, you got's to do them!
Tact, nope never will I guess
PBR

 

[FMR_RGNL_PLT]

PBR,

Yeah, you have that attitude,,,,,, I would have LOVED to have been your F/O right off of IOE. Just because a guy hasn't flown into a particular airport hauling checks at night and isn't familiar with the ground layout or radio procedures I'll bet your real understaning if he needs a little help.

Or, if maybe the guy is a little slow working with the autopilot 'cause he didn't have one in the a/c he was flying I'll bet you don't like to give any help. Not because the guy isn't a good stick, or because he isn't sharp, or becuase he doesn't have a good attitude, but because YOU are the arrogant SOB who can't empathize with a fellow pilot and do the decent thing and help him out.

If you had some punk with low time with an attitude, yeah, he doesn't deserve help, but if you have someone beside you who has the skills and the right attitude, but just doesn't have the time in that level of aircraft, it is your responsibility as a captain and a leader, whether you like it or not, to help that person to the best of your ability.

If that guy is a good stick, and maybe has he's an experienced aerobatic plot and and has done some MEI training, he may be BETTER THAN YOU at handling certain emergencies, think about it..........

Sorry for going off on you, but man I've heard that along the way, the bottom line is that "inexperienced FO" has already made it to that seat if he is beside you and its not helpful to you, or the passengers in the back, (ie, your wife/kids) not to help your FO be the best he can be as long as he is trying his best.

FYI, guys in the military are flying missions in F-15s at around 300hrs, so total flight time really doesn't mean that much as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather have an MEI who has done alot of initial multi instruction recently, (you wanna talk about challenging, potentially dangerous work) handling an engine out in a turbo-prop than some old line pilot whose hand/eye coordination might be slipping.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

FMR_RGNL-PLT, etal,
I am not sure why you are trying convince me or anyone else reading this board that 300 hr pilots are as good as 1000,2000,3000 hr pilots with the experience gained from such. Piloting is about learning, when you stop it's time to quit.
"If that guy is a good stick, and maybe has he's an experienced aerobatic plot and and has done some MEI training, he may be BETTER THAN YOU at handling certain emergencies, think about it.......... "
SOP procedures and proper training are what prevents your statement(above in quotes) from being required, think about it.... experienced aerobatic pilot, why would you need that training/experience unless things have gotten way out of hand. Your arguement about military pilots is taken well, the military takes the best of the best, takes the cream off the that, then trains to the maximum level possible, and still fails some. The experience that the 300 military pilot gains during probably equals thousands of hours other types of flying. "Sorry for going off on" -me?, don't be, sounds like the above examples were things that happened to you, not my behavior. I am working for SKYW and am going into my 5th year and 3rd year in the CRJ, you?
Best to all
PBR

 

[WhiteCloud]

The thing that seems to be lost in this discussion is that military and legitimate "ab initio" programs are places where good students apply and get paid to devote a couple years to learning to fly. 300 hours of airline or military specific training along with demanding course work and high levels of expectation are quite different than 300 hours of training at the local pea patch (like I did). Civilian training is what you make of it and the quality varies tremendously. We have a little more to prove because of this. A good, concientious student with 300 hours and a Commercial ME/instrument licence would do just fine in any airplane out there PROVIDED the training course matched his/her background. As we know, most airlines throw the material at you and you sink or swim. That's why a higher level of initial experience is required to get through.