Made in the USA

[Timebuilder]

This week, I heard some discouraging news about Maytag. They will close their plant in Illinois, laying off some 1,600 employees, many of whom worked for the company their entire lives. The company plans to shift production to Mexico.

I like to vote in the marketplace by buying or not buying products, so I'd like to find a site where I can see what goods are US manufactured and which are not.

Anyone know of such a site?

 

[Jesco]

GO NAFTA!

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

TB, don't know of any websites but speculate there are some. I always look at the labels to see where the stuff is made. Sometimes there are no options (DVD players for example).
It continues to amaze me how USA businesses leave this country yet still want to sell those products back in the USA. Maybe they're selling them to other countries as well but I think the majority of this stuff comes back here.
Pretty soon there won't be anyone making decent wages to support these businesses and the government tax revenues will shrink (the children will suffer ). Wonder if any big business leaders or government leaders ever thought of that...or even care? Live for today.
Oh well, maybe we can all be employed by the government...maybe even the TSA! We can spy on each other!

 

[Jesco]

Ummm, that is exactly what caused the great depression. When 80% of the wealth is controlled by 20% of the people, no common people are left to spend money to drive the economy. Ford, steel and coal companies paid labor so poorly that labor couldn't afford to buy the products they made. Then these big companies went out of business. For you die hard republicans, this is exactly why unfettered capitalism does not work (an neither does unfettered socialism.)

The solution now is the same as it was in 1935. Tax the rich and create jobs for the common guy to restore economic balance.

The truth is rarely in extremes. Unbridled capitalism leads to one mega rich guy and a monopoly. Socialism at its extreme leads to low productivity, 0 competition, 0 innovation and an eventual collapse. Just like the western block in Europe failed when socialism went over the edge, so will we if the rich keep getting richer at the expense of everyone else.

 

[jarhead]

made in the USA

This becomes quite problematical when you ask about what products are "manufactured" in the USA. The more complex a product is, the more components there are that have come from many foreign sources. Just because something is "assembled" in the USA, does not mean the majority of its components were made here. If you would look at the content of a General Motors car, you could see some models which had the engine manufactured in Brazil, certain aluminum castings made in Korea, leather for seating from Spain, etc, etc, etc. I watched a program a few years ago on the discovery channel about the development and manufacture of the Boeing 777. You would not believe how many countries are involved in the production of that aircraft. Japan and Australia have some major sub-assemblies made in their country. Final assembly may be done in Washington state, but jillions of dollars in parts, components and subassemblies come from all over the world.

Conversely, companies like Honda, Toyota, etc. Have some of their final assembly plants in the USA......but many "parts" are made here, AND abroad.

We are a global economy now, and for a company to survive against competition, none can afford to be the high cost producer and stay in business very long.

Ever try to buy a camera made in America? Can't be done. Even Kodak and Poloroid are off shore now, even though their corporate headquarters are in the USA.

Americans who can afford them, and want the quality of a BMW or Mercedes automobile, buy them, irrespective that they come from Germany.

 

[demo]

Anyone know of such a site?

To take it one step further go to http://www.unionlabel.org/cgi-bin/main.cfm to search for products that are union-made in the USA.

 

[Timebuilder]

For you die hard republicans, this is exactly why unfettered capitalism does not work (an neither does unfettered socialism.)

Well, we will never see unfettered capitalism in this country, that much you can count on.

The great depression, which followed the crash of the stock market, was largely due to insider trading, led by the friends and cronies of Jack's dad, Joseph P. Kennedy, a democrat. Following his mega-windfall, Joe was placed in charge of correcting the system that had made his ill-gotten riches possible. Sort of putting the fox in charge of closing the hen house door.

If prices of goods put those goods out of the reach of the prospective purchaser, then the market self-corrects by lowering prices to meet the lack of demand that was shown when the prices were higher.

The solution now is the same as it was in 1935. Tax the rich and create jobs for the common guy to restore economic balance.

No one has EVER taxed an economy back into "balance". The only truly "fair" system is a consumption tax, predicated on the elimination of the income tax. In this case, even those who make their money through black market activity end up paying their fair portion of the tax burden, and our treasury does not then rely on the health of just one segment of society, such as large investors.

 

[Mickey]

When I bought my Honda Civic a few years ago, over 96%of the parts were made in the USA. A lot of the Fords and Dodges were barely above 50%. By buying the Honda, I helped put more food on American workers' tables and money in their pockets. Take care.

 

[FL000]

Sometimes there are no options (DVD players for example).

Actually, the finest quality DVD/CD/speaker/audio/video company in the world has HQ and production in the USA: Bose.

Also, I entered "made in the usa" into yahoo! and came up with several sites, including:

http://www.purchaseamerican.com/

http://www.madeinusa.org/

 

[Jesco]

Timbuilder

Ok Timebuilder, I'm ready to make this the great debate

A quick search on google http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=cause+of+the+great+depression reveals

The Cause of the Great Depression in 1929
1. Unequal Distribution of Wealth and Income
Despite rising wages overall, income distribution was extremely unequal. Gaps in income had actually
increased since the 1890s. The 1% of the population at the very top of the pyramid had incomes 650%
greater than those 11% of Americans at the bottom of the pyramid. The tremendous concentration of
wealth in the hands of the few meant that the American economy was dependent on high investment
or luxury spending of the rich. However, both high spending and high investment are very susceptible to
fluctuations in the economy; they are much less stable than people's expenses on daily necessities like
food,clothing, and shelter. Therefore, when the market crashed and the economy tumbled, both big
spending and big investment collapsed.

2. Unequal Distribution of Corporate Power
From the late 1870s on, there had been an ongoing movement of consolidations and mergers. During
World War I, many would-be competitors were merged into huge corporations like General Electric,
making competition nearly nonexistent. In 1929 two hundred of the biggest corporations controlled 50%
of the corporate wealth in America. This concentration of wealth meant that if just a few companies went
under after the Crash, the whole economy would suffer.
(http://www.arts.unimelb.edu.au/amu/ucr/student/1997/Yee/depression.htm)

To solve that problem (and if you don't think we are on the verge of the exact same scenario right now you are nuts!) you've got to get some money back into the hands of the common guy (that’s you Timebuilder unless you are a billionaire) Do it with taxes, a Guillotine (it worked for the French,) or however you'd like, but the bottom line is when too few people have all the cash the system fails.

 

[Timebuilder]

Jesco-

Getting two people to agree about economics is about as futile an idea as getting them to agree on scope, RJs (sorry, we can't have a thread without RJs, can we?) or religion. If you want to bring up unequal distribution of wealth and power, we can look at history and see that this has aways been the case, and socialist attempts at changing this have always failed.

To solve that problem (and if you don't think we are on the verge of the exact same scenario right now you are nuts!) you've got to get some money back into the hands of the common guy (that’s you Timebuilder unless you are a billionaire) Do it with taxes, a Guillotine (it worked for the French,) or however you'd like, but the bottom line is when too few people have all the cash the system fails.

You can call me nuts. I know that I have never been offered a job by a poor person, and currently, only folks with lots of money can put an additional airplane on leaseback to increase my income. THAT is what puts money into the hand of the common guy: the willingness of a wealthy person to part with investment income to create jobs.

Government just can't do that.

Good day.

 

[Jesco]

Timebuilder... We probably agree and you don't realize it. I'm not proposing that I have the perfect system for the redistribution of wealth, and in fact I agree that attempts at socialism have failed. Perhaps if I did know the perfect system I'd run for office. My point is simply that the wealth right now is less evenly distributed than it has been for a while, and we are verging on a distribution that will cause a depression.

The republicans want to rely on the private sector to pass the jobs and the money down and the democrats want to tax the rich and hand the money out through government. Neither way on its own will work.

Bill Gates still has 80 or 90 billion dollars that I'm sure he's keeping and a welfare state doesn't exactly produce solutions either. And no I don't have a better idea, if I did I'd be one heck of a smart guy.

My only point was that NAFTA and moving these jobs to lower paying places only makes it worse. Its the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and eventually our economic system will collapse. Its already started. Read my previous post with the quotes. None of that smells like Enron to you? It does to me.

 

[Timebuilder]

Enron sounds like a very simple case of greedy people engaged in lying.

String 'em up, Texas style. I'll pack a box lunch for the hanging.

The republicans want to rely on the private sector to pass the jobs and the money down and the democrats want to tax the rich and hand the money out through government. Neither way on its own will work.

Since we don't want a government run economy (we have already moved much farther in that direction than I am confortable) we must rely on the private sector for all "good" that comes from any economy, particularly our own. This is why europeans want to move here. I was a democrat for most of my life, and I can tell you that the purpose of wealth redistribution is not for the purpose of helping the poor and downtrodden, it's for winning elections and maintaining power by keeping poor poeple down, and voting democrat.

 

[Jesco]

Since we don't want a government run economy

We don't want it government run. Its government regulated we want. What do you think your insurance rates would be without regulation? How about hotdogs without government regulation. Pig butt is tasty! Cars were super safe without government regulated seatbelts. Oh sure at some point enough people die that industry makes a change, but I'll take some regualtion for sure. Obviously its way overdone in too many places, but its not a regulatory free world you want.

(we have already moved much farther in that direction than I am confortable) we must rely on the private sector for all "good" that comes from any economy, particularly our own.

Really? Industry provides the police, the fire department, what about health care for poor kids, shall we let industry do that as well? Lets see, we've got the department of agriculture to regulate that mexican food, the departmen of education to make sure your kids have a school with teachers that are not convicted child molesters (yes they regulate teacher certificates as well,) the department of motor vehicles that regulates other drivers so you don't killed. The list goes on. Sure these places are bloated, but do you want them to go away?

This is why europeans want to move here.

Please cite a source showing how europeans think America is the place to be. I counter with, Americans want to move there.

I was a democrat for most of my life, and I can tell you that the purpose of wealth redistribution is not for the purpose of helping the poor and downtrodden, it's for winning elections and maintaining power by keeping poor poeple down, and voting democrat

How in the world does the redistribution of wealth to the poor keep them down? I was not intending to make a political argument, it was a discussion on economics. Believe, neither party is right on. The only reason we function as well as we do is because the parties moderate each other.

I'm leaving now, you make no sense.

 

[Timebuilder]

Please cite a source showing how europeans think America is the place to be. I counter with, Americans want to move there.

You can't be serious. This is flame bait, right?

Really? Industry provides the police, the fire department, what about health care for poor kids, shall we let industry do that as well?

Industry is the economic engine that provides the value that makes all of the government departments and services that you mentioned possible.

The poor have a specific purpose in society, and Christ himself observed that the poor will ALWAYS be with us. It is a mistake to put the needs of the poor into the hands of government. When the poor must rely on charitable individuals, they are their fewest in number. Stigma and shame are our oldest and most powerful motivators. The poor show us what we desire to avoid becoming in society, and the poor themselves desire to rise above their current station when they are allowed to feel some discomfort. The founders observed that this is true in a framework of moral and ethical belief, which we have nearly bred out of the American population during the growth of the welfare state.

Dependence on governmnet money for life itself creates an entitled class of dependent non-workers who lack any shame or stigma, and become comfortable in their socially and politicaly respectable lives, voting for the candidate most likely to continue their subsidized existance. This is not the American way, and in fact is a road to the destruction of America.

How about hotdogs without government regulation. Pig butt is tasty!

An undesirable product quickly evaporates from the marketplace.

How in the world does the redistribution of wealth to the poor keep them down? I was not intending to make a political argument, it was a discussion on economics. Believe, neither party is right on. The only reason we function as well as we do is because the parties moderate each other.

How does the redistibution of wealth keep the poor down? By condeming them to being beholden to the government for their daily bread. By robbing them of their motivation for self improvement, and by taking their future through the promotion of cultural cancers. The reason we function as well as we do isn't because the parties moderate each other. It is because the human spirit has a basic sense of right and wrong which is difficult for governments to crush.

I'm leaving now, you make no sense.

That's funy, I was just thinking the same thing about your approach to economics.

Thanks to FL000 for the links. We need to retain the remaining portion of our industrial base.