Lying in an Interview

[paulsalem]

Thanks BerKut.

Impressive.

 

[Catnhat]

Post something citable, state laws are on the internet...cite your reference please.

Typically a traffic violation is a violation of motor vehicle code, that's why you get to cut the judge out of the process when you sign the ticket and post signature bond with the police officer, driving away with your pink copy instead of going to jail until you see a judge.

I think that Berkut did a great job of posting examples of traffic violations not being criminal offenses in a few states. I suppose it is always best to check the specific state laws where the ticket is issued. As for my comment regarding the possibility of additional criminal charges, this is based on an incident involving a friend's son. Received a ticket for 90 in a 65, which is a traffic infraction in NY State. He was also arrested for reckless endangerment. He was taken to the police station and was book on the misdemeanor charge. This was later dropped at the hearing by the judge when he admitted guilt in the speeding charge.

 

[air cowboy]

This subject scomes up occasionally on this board. Ususally it is in hte context of some conviction which was expunged. A popular, but flawed, line of thinking is that if a crime or misdemeanor has been expunged, you are entitled to pretend that it never happened and may lie in response to questions about arrests and convictions.


.

This is not a flawed line of thinking, at least in some cases. A friend of mine completed ARD, the misdemenor was expunged, and he got a letter from his lawyer saying "You can legally advise that you have never been arrested or convicted of this crime" Case Closed.

 

[A Squared]

This is not a flawed line of thinking, at least in some cases. A friend of mine completed ARD, the misdemenor was expunged, and he got a letter from his lawyer saying "You can legally advise that you have never been arrested or convicted of this crime" Case Closed.

Sounds like legal weaseling to me. If you got arrested, you got arrested, and from that moment on the only honest answer is yes, you can't un-ring a bell, not can anyone, an judge included change the past.

Now, I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of what happens when something is expunged, but from what I understand there are some databases which that information never drops out of. A state judge can seal or have erased state court records. I'm pretty skeptical that a state judge can have something taken out of the FBI's data base. I'll bet that once it's there, it's there. Now, remember that we are all subject to background clearences which are done with the FBI's database.

OK so you had some conviction you got expunged, you said that you've never been arrested coarged or convicted, and your conviction shows up in your background check. You think the airline is going to be impressed with: "well I was legally entiled to lie about my conviction" ???? I doubt it. Read the case, it that logic certainly didn't work at Alaska Airlines.

 

[lowtimedriver]

Sounds like legal weaseling to me. If you got arrested, you got arrested, and from that moment on the only honest answer is yes, you can't un-ring a bell, not can anyone, an judge included change the past.

Now, I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of what happens when something is expunged, but from what I understand there are some databases which that information never drops out of. A state judge can seal or have erased state court records. I'm pretty skeptical that a state judge can have something taken out of the FBI's data base. I'll bet that once it's there, it's there. Now, remember that we are all subject to background clearences which are done with the FBI's database.

OK so you had some conviction you got expunged, you said that you've never been arrested coarged or convicted, and your conviction shows up in your background check. You think the airline is going to be impressed with: "well I was legally entiled to lie about my conviction" ???? I doubt it. Read the case, it that logic certainly didn't work at Alaska Airlines.

Problem is that you are looking at employment law vs. statutory law. Under the expungement statues, if you have had a previous misdemeanor expunged, it is if the crime never took place.

 

[FN FAL]

Thanks BerKut.

Impressive.

Google and cut and paste are awesome.

 

[Berkut]

You're welcome.

 

[paulsalem]

Google and cut and paste are awesome.

It probably took a fair amount of digging.

 

[air cowboy]

Sounds like legal weaseling to me. If you got arrested, you got arrested, and from that moment on the only honest answer is yes, you can't un-ring a bell, not can anyone, an judge included change the past.

Now, I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of what happens when something is expunged, but from what I understand there are some databases which that information never drops out of. A state judge can seal or have erased state court records. I'm pretty skeptical that a state judge can have something taken out of the FBI's data base. I'll bet that once it's there, it's there. Now, remember that we are all subject to background clearences which are done with the FBI's database.

OK so you had some conviction you got expunged, you said that you've never been arrested coarged or convicted, and your conviction shows up in your background check. You think the airline is going to be impressed with: "well I was legally entiled to lie about my conviction" ???? I doubt it. Read the case, it that logic certainly didn't work at Alaska Airlines.

No, there never was a conviction. That's how ard works, you do the terms, and they drop the charges. It still has to be expunged so that there is now record of the incident (not conviction).

 

[IFollowRoads]

No, there never was a conviction. That's how ard works, you do the terms, and they drop the charges. It still has to be expunged so that there is now record of the incident (not conviction).

The clerk of the court files might be expunged, but the arrest paperwork stays at the jail forever, as a civil liberties safeguard. In other words, the arresting agency can't make all the paperwork go away and deny having had someone in custody. So depending on how in depth the background investigation is, you can get nailed in the interview about a past arrest.

There are consequences for all your actions. Owning up to a mistake is one of those consequences. Don't make the situation worse for yourself by being a liar.

 

[FN FAL]

It probably took a fair amount of digging.

You're lecturing to a digger.

 

[Gorilla]

Has anyone answered the question about arrested vs convicted? Let's say you were walking home from the Kwik-E-Mart, munching a burrito, and are arrested at gunpoint because you are 5'2", red hair, and that matches the description of a guy that robbed the bank four blocks away.

You are released 2 hours later when the real bank robber is caught.

What do you say in the interview? Tell them the whole story? Probably good for a sympathetic chuckle.

But it gets worse in the next example. You are accused of tax evasion, and endure a LONG and expensive trial. Ultimately the jury returns NOT GUILTY. This one is not so easy to talk about. Even if you say "Yeah I was arrested but not convicted", the interviewer is probably thinking "Hmm, how'd this guy get off? Loophole? He MAY be guilty."

 

[Snakum]

A friend of mine completed ARD, the misdemenor was expunged, and he got a letter from his lawyer saying "You can legally advise that you have never been arrested or convicted of this crime" Case Closed.

Case NOT closed, as far as an airline job goes. Have your friend try it and let us know how it works out. The lawyer could not be more wrong if he intentionally tried to be.

 

[timetoquit]

The clerk of the court files might be expunged, but the arrest paperwork stays at the jail forever, as a civil liberties safeguard. In other words, the arresting agency can't make all the paperwork go away and deny having had someone in custody. So depending on how in depth the background investigation is, you can get nailed in the interview about a past arrest.

There are consequences for all your actions. Owning up to a mistake is one of those consequences. Don't make the situation worse for yourself by being a liar.

I had a misdemeanor expunged from my record years ago and there was about 8 expungement orders issued that I had to deliver to the various agencies, including the jail, FBI, city, county, and state records, etc.. so your assumption that the record remains with the jail is not entirely correct.

 

[pilot444]

Line check

I have recently interviewed with a rejional airline they have asked me if I have ever failed a check ride and I said NO. Days later I become concerned with a line check I had right after IOE for my Captain upgrade I landed hard and my IOE Captain was scared to sign me off since we had a FAA observer on the jump seat I went out the following day with out an FAA jump seater and was signed off after a short round trip. Got me thinking was that a failed check ride and if it was why the FAA wasn't riding with us the following day? Is line check even considered a check ride.

 

[b757driver]

Depends on the Questions Asked and Where??

Has anyone answered the question about arrested vs convicted? Let's say you were walking home from the Kwik-E-Mart, munching a burrito, and are arrested at gunpoint because you are 5'2", red hair, and that matches the description of a guy that robbed the bank four blocks away.

You are released 2 hours later when the real bank robber is caught.

What do you say in the interview? Tell them the whole story? Probably good for a sympathetic chuckle.

But it gets worse in the next example. You are accused of tax evasion, and endure a LONG and expensive trial. Ultimately the jury returns NOT GUILTY. This one is not so easy to talk about. Even if you say "Yeah I was arrested but not convicted", the interviewer is probably thinking "Hmm, how'd this guy get off? Loophole? He MAY be guilty."

Yes, a few grey areas. There are two areas of concern. First the application form and then the interview. The interview may be more probing.
Most apps ask if you have EVER been CONVICTED of a felony or misdemeanor. Some ask if that's the case over the pasy 10 years. Best way to answer this is to actually answer the question and don't add any additional information. If whatever happened was more than 10 years ago and that's what they are asking for, then the answer is simply NO. You are, after all, answering the SPECIFIC question. It's the company counsel that inserts those questions any way. Play them at their own game. Of course, if the question is more probing, then you have to answer that appropriately.
If you were arrested for an alleged misdemeanor but subsequently all charges were dropped for whatever reason, then your answer for were you convicted is clearly a no, since you were not convicted and any record remaining or otherwise would show this. Only an arrest for probable cause would show.
Questions in an interview usually are more probing. Is there anything we should know about you that we have not covered? is a typical exmple. I would then mention about an arrest that will likely show up but don't dwell on it. Give brief details and then SHUT UP. So many people dig BIG holes for themselves as we have found out above.
Just answer the question(s) they ask, answer them briefly and don't volunteer too much nor try to cover it up or make it out that it was not your fault. Common sense, really.

 

[air cowboy]

The clerk of the court files might be expunged, but the arrest paperwork stays at the jail forever, as a civil liberties safeguard. In other words, the arresting agency can't make all the paperwork go away and deny having had someone in custody. So depending on how in depth the background investigation is, you can get nailed in the interview about a past arrest.

There are consequences for all your actions. Owning up to a mistake is one of those consequences. Don't make the situation worse for yourself by being a liar.

Getting falsely arrested for something you did not do is not a mistake. Think before you speak son.

 

[pilot444]

I agree

 

[IFollowRoads]

Getting falsely arrested for something you did not do is not a mistake. Think before you speak son.

Think before you speak, "son." The issue at hand has nothing to do with why you were arrested, if the charges were upheld or not, or if you sued the hell out of the arresting agency later. The discussion is about lying about a past arrest or charge in an interview, not the nuances of constitutional law.

 

[A Squared]

Here's something else that might be food for thought.


The other day I was having a conversation with a co-worker along the lines for arrest records and such, and he said that when he went through a background check 2 things from his past surfaced:

An arrest when he was 9 for shoplifting

and later he was questioned in connection with a rape. not arrested, not charged, but questioned.


You want to bet your career that your "expunged" crime, whatever it is doesn't exist in any file, anywhere?

Why ios it that some people are so opposed to the concept that honesty is the best policy?