Lying in an Interview

[JSky26]

I got a ticket for a city ordinance violation - possession of alcohol by a minor a couple years back (haha, hence my avator) and I was planning on getting it expunged. Is it even worth it? In addition to that, I have a ticket for committing an "improper lane change", which I didn't get expunged.

I'm a CFI right now and worried that this will effect my future?

 

[landlover]

I got a ticket for a city ordinance violation - possession of alcohol by a minor a couple years back (haha, hence my avator) and I was planning on getting it expunged. Is it even worth it? In addition to that, I have a ticket for committing an "improper lane change", which I didn't get expunged.

I'm a CFI right now and worried that this will effect my future?

Don't bother getting it expunged. just explain it honestly and next thing you know you'll be on a layover with the same captain that interviewed you having beers. For the traffic violation, dont even worry about that one. I know plenty of guys that have 1 or more suspensions on their drivers license and they fly for several different majors.

 

[lowtimedriver]

Along the same lines:

If an application asks if you've ever been convicted of a crime, does a traffic ticket count?

Traffic tickets are not crimes, but are infractions.

 

[FN FAL]

Usually there are separate questions regarding traffic violations. Typically, a traffic violation is not a crime, unless it is accompanied by an additional charge like reckless endangerment. This (at least in my state) will result in a traffic ticket, for speeding for instance, and an additional misdemeanor charge of RE if the speed is excessive.

Along this line, do companies ask or have the right to ask about arrests that do NOT result in a conviction, or where charges are dropped?

Post something citable, state laws are on the internet...cite your reference please.

Typically a traffic violation is a violation of motor vehicle code, that's why you get to cut the judge out of the process when you sign the ticket and post signature bond with the police officer, driving away with your pink copy instead of going to jail until you see a judge.

 

[Berkut]

http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/crimes#felonies-misdemeanors-infractions

An infraction, sometimes called a petty offense, is the violation of an administrative regulation, an ORDINANCE, a municipal code, and, in some jurisdictions, a state or local traffic rule. In many states an infraction is not considered a criminal offense and thus not punishable by incarceration. Instead, such jurisdictions treat infractions as civil offenses. Even in jurisdictions that treat infractions as criminal offenses, incarceration is not usually contemplated as punishment, and when it is, confinement is limited to serving time in a local jail. Like misdemeanors, infractions are often defined in very broad language. For example, one state provides that any offense that is defined "without either designation as a felony or a misdemeanor or specification of the class or penalty is a petty offense" (see AZ ST § 13-602).

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/distcrt/traffic.htm

In 1981, the Legislature decriminalized many minor traffic offenses to promote public safety and to facilitate the implementation of a uniform and expeditious system for the disposition of such offenses. Common traffic infractions are speeding, seat belt and liability insurance violations. Since 1989, other types of minor offenses have been decriminalized, including certain parks, wildlife, and fisheries offenses. These offenses are called infractions and are considered civil cases.

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec103.html

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]§103. Traffic infraction[/FONT]

1. Traffic infraction. A traffic infraction is not a crime. The penalty for a traffic infraction may not be deemed for any purpose a penal or criminal punishment.[FONT=courier, fixed] [1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (new); Pt. B, §5 (aff).][/FONT]

2. Jury trial. There is no right to trial by jury for a traffic infraction.[FONT=courier, fixed] [1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (new); Pt. B, §5 (aff).][/FONT]

3. Exclusive penalty. The exclusive penalty for a traffic infraction is a fine of not less than $25 nor more than $500, unless specifically authorized, or suspension of a license, or both.[FONT=courier, fixed] [1995, c. 584, Pt. B, §2 (amd).][/FONT]

http://www2.state.id.us/fourthjudicial/FOURTH%20DISTRICT/TrafficCaseProcess.html

B. Infractions: Minor traffic offenses in Idaho are called infractions. An infraction is not a crime but is a civil public offense for which there is a maximum penalty of $100.00 and for which there can be no jail time imposed. The Supreme Court has established by court rule a fixed penalty schedule for infraction violations. The fixed penalties cannot be increased, decreased, suspended, or withheld by any court. The penalty is more in the nature of a fee, and the fixed penalty is not a criminal fine. Because an infraction is not a crime, a defendant may never be arrested for an infraction and may never be required to post bail.

 

[paulsalem]

Thanks BerKut.

Impressive.

 

[Catnhat]

Post something citable, state laws are on the internet...cite your reference please.

Typically a traffic violation is a violation of motor vehicle code, that's why you get to cut the judge out of the process when you sign the ticket and post signature bond with the police officer, driving away with your pink copy instead of going to jail until you see a judge.

I think that Berkut did a great job of posting examples of traffic violations not being criminal offenses in a few states. I suppose it is always best to check the specific state laws where the ticket is issued. As for my comment regarding the possibility of additional criminal charges, this is based on an incident involving a friend's son. Received a ticket for 90 in a 65, which is a traffic infraction in NY State. He was also arrested for reckless endangerment. He was taken to the police station and was book on the misdemeanor charge. This was later dropped at the hearing by the judge when he admitted guilt in the speeding charge.

 

[air cowboy]

This subject scomes up occasionally on this board. Ususally it is in hte context of some conviction which was expunged. A popular, but flawed, line of thinking is that if a crime or misdemeanor has been expunged, you are entitled to pretend that it never happened and may lie in response to questions about arrests and convictions.


.

This is not a flawed line of thinking, at least in some cases. A friend of mine completed ARD, the misdemenor was expunged, and he got a letter from his lawyer saying "You can legally advise that you have never been arrested or convicted of this crime" Case Closed.

 

[A Squared]

This is not a flawed line of thinking, at least in some cases. A friend of mine completed ARD, the misdemenor was expunged, and he got a letter from his lawyer saying "You can legally advise that you have never been arrested or convicted of this crime" Case Closed.

Sounds like legal weaseling to me. If you got arrested, you got arrested, and from that moment on the only honest answer is yes, you can't un-ring a bell, not can anyone, an judge included change the past.

Now, I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of what happens when something is expunged, but from what I understand there are some databases which that information never drops out of. A state judge can seal or have erased state court records. I'm pretty skeptical that a state judge can have something taken out of the FBI's data base. I'll bet that once it's there, it's there. Now, remember that we are all subject to background clearences which are done with the FBI's database.

OK so you had some conviction you got expunged, you said that you've never been arrested coarged or convicted, and your conviction shows up in your background check. You think the airline is going to be impressed with: "well I was legally entiled to lie about my conviction" ???? I doubt it. Read the case, it that logic certainly didn't work at Alaska Airlines.

 

[lowtimedriver]

Sounds like legal weaseling to me. If you got arrested, you got arrested, and from that moment on the only honest answer is yes, you can't un-ring a bell, not can anyone, an judge included change the past.

Now, I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of what happens when something is expunged, but from what I understand there are some databases which that information never drops out of. A state judge can seal or have erased state court records. I'm pretty skeptical that a state judge can have something taken out of the FBI's data base. I'll bet that once it's there, it's there. Now, remember that we are all subject to background clearences which are done with the FBI's database.

OK so you had some conviction you got expunged, you said that you've never been arrested coarged or convicted, and your conviction shows up in your background check. You think the airline is going to be impressed with: "well I was legally entiled to lie about my conviction" ???? I doubt it. Read the case, it that logic certainly didn't work at Alaska Airlines.

Problem is that you are looking at employment law vs. statutory law. Under the expungement statues, if you have had a previous misdemeanor expunged, it is if the crime never took place.

 

[FN FAL]

Thanks BerKut.

Impressive.

Google and cut and paste are awesome.

 

[Berkut]

You're welcome.

 

[paulsalem]

Google and cut and paste are awesome.

It probably took a fair amount of digging.

 

[air cowboy]

Sounds like legal weaseling to me. If you got arrested, you got arrested, and from that moment on the only honest answer is yes, you can't un-ring a bell, not can anyone, an judge included change the past.

Now, I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of what happens when something is expunged, but from what I understand there are some databases which that information never drops out of. A state judge can seal or have erased state court records. I'm pretty skeptical that a state judge can have something taken out of the FBI's data base. I'll bet that once it's there, it's there. Now, remember that we are all subject to background clearences which are done with the FBI's database.

OK so you had some conviction you got expunged, you said that you've never been arrested coarged or convicted, and your conviction shows up in your background check. You think the airline is going to be impressed with: "well I was legally entiled to lie about my conviction" ???? I doubt it. Read the case, it that logic certainly didn't work at Alaska Airlines.

No, there never was a conviction. That's how ard works, you do the terms, and they drop the charges. It still has to be expunged so that there is now record of the incident (not conviction).

 

[IFollowRoads]

No, there never was a conviction. That's how ard works, you do the terms, and they drop the charges. It still has to be expunged so that there is now record of the incident (not conviction).

The clerk of the court files might be expunged, but the arrest paperwork stays at the jail forever, as a civil liberties safeguard. In other words, the arresting agency can't make all the paperwork go away and deny having had someone in custody. So depending on how in depth the background investigation is, you can get nailed in the interview about a past arrest.

There are consequences for all your actions. Owning up to a mistake is one of those consequences. Don't make the situation worse for yourself by being a liar.