LXJET 70+ seat rates out

[79%N1]

..........................and it continues!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Somehow this REEKS of a power struggle. It makes no sense otherwise.

 

[dojetdriver]

They shouldn't have, but we have a long history of giving zero $&@"s about reserve QOL. Senior pilots see reserve as a right of passage. They dealt with the suck, so why should their raises be lessened by reserve improvements? Never mind that some of them spent only months, weeks, or zero time on reserve while many are currently serving many years.

I know what you mean brotha'. I was just using it as an example of how asinine this whole circular argument has become and how this stupid blame game is going on.

Meanwhile not enough line-holding FOs realize how important those rules will be when they upgrade and reserve is significantly longer.

ERJ has the same issue. It always cracks me up to hear/read the reserve CA's complain about how much reserve sucks, as well as how "long" they've been on reserve. As an FO, they maybe say reserve 1-3 months back in 2006, etc. It sucks for sure.

If the negotiating committee won't fight for it a TA vote will never fail on reserve rules alone.

I had high hopes that the JCBA would fix this but given the current state of dysfunction I'm no longer optimistic.

Me neither. Keep filling out the apps, keep updating the apps, and GTFO ASAP.

 

[Nevets]

I agree with this. I made this exact same argument to my reps around a year ago. Obviously it wasn't convincing and I am likewise troubled by the resistance to neutral arbitration.

And this is all I'm saying. Their resistance to a common sense dispute resolution process is what has gotten us where we are now. Those are the facts, plain and simple.

Somehow this REEKS of a power struggle. It makes no sense otherwise.

Yes, I whole heartedly agree. The XJT MEC was willing to relinquish their "power" to a neutral third party arbitrator. But I've heard a rumor that, to their credit if its true, they have decided to put the issue to vote amongst us line pilots.

 

[asayankee]

I agree with this. I made this exact same argument to my reps around a year ago. Obviously it wasn't convincing and I am likewise troubled by the resistance to neutral arbitration.

As for the rest, I don't have the energy or desire to go in another circle on this. I'm much more interested in the next step. Hopefully an agreement on a way to move forward will be reached soon.

What everyone needs to remember and what your new large aircraft rates represent perfectly is that an arbitrator has ZERO interest in what is the best system for the employees. They are interested only in industry average and what they think will also help the company compete.... Why expose yourself to that risk? It makes no sense.

 

[Nevets]

What everyone needs to remember and what your new large aircraft rates represent perfectly is that an arbitrator has ZERO interest in what is the best system for the employees. They are interested only in industry average and what they think will also help the company compete.... Why expose yourself to that risk? It makes no sense.

That may be true when an arbitrator is deciding between the company and an employee group. This would be a dispute resolution between two employee groups. The scope and methodology of his decision would be decided mutually between the MECs.

A real life example of it is the seniority list integration. Management has no say in that arbitration and therefore would not be part of the process and unable to make a case before the arbitrator. The union, ALPA in our case, decides that the arbitrator must consider in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, include but are not limited to career expectations, longevity, and status and category.

So you can see that the arbitrator has been given instructions on how to come to his conclusion. This is how the PBS arbitration would have worked. The arbitrator would have just picked a PBS vendor in accordance to his instructions and who made the best argument. The company has no say in this arbitration because they have no standing on what the MEC tries to negotiate for. After receiving the arbitrator's decision, the JNC would negotiate that PBS into the new contract. And of course management would attempt to negotiate the PBS work rules and the contract as a whole, as industry average.

 

[Ops check good]

how about you guys try to quit your bickering and fly the airplanes on time?

 

[centralpilot]

What everyone needs to remember and what your new large aircraft rates represent perfectly is that an arbitrator has ZERO interest in what is the best system for the employees. They are interested only in industry average and what they think will also help the company compete.... Why expose yourself to that risk? It makes no sense.

L-ASA is similarly exposed in section Contract 2007's section 26.D. Should the company seek to add a new aircraft type at L-ASA which we don't already have rates for (unlikely), we have the same short negotiation window followed by arbitration. The only difference is a clause that restricts the arbitrator from referencing similar carriers currently operating under bankruptcy protection or non-union carriers that don't operate under a CBA.

EDIT: I think I misread your point the first time through. Nevets covered why internal dispute arbitration wouldn't be the same.

 

[centralpilot]

how about you guys try to quit your bickering and fly the airplanes on time?

Right, because the pilots are the ones screwing up the operation

 

[Ops check good]

Right, because the pilots are the ones screwing up the operation

I had to say it because its funny. The pilots are not completely to blame but I have seen what a gung-ho flight crew can do for on time departures. Example: 22 min turn, full plane off, full plane on and a tire change. plane went out 1 min early. Why? well MX dominates for one and the captain was actually throwing bags! Thats what happy workers can do and Im just taking a guess but we all probably make less than you guys that are bitching all the time.