Lufthansa decides bomb threat not serious - continues flight

[ThomasR]

What if

What if the telephone company gave the offending phone numbers to the F.B.I. and they went and nabbed all those terrorists at once in a big sting operation. No, that would never happen. Neither would 100,000 Arabs volunteer to call all the schools and railways at the same time. Sometimes, you just have to go with your instincts. What is wrong with that? You do it all the time while you are flying. Aeronuatics is an exact science, aviation is not.

 

[jarhead]

What if the telephone company gave the offending phone numbers to the F.B.I. and they went and nabbed all those terrorists at once in a big sting operation. No, that would never happen. Neither would 100,000 Arabs volunteer to call all the schools and railways at the same time. Sometimes, you just have to go with your instincts. What is wrong with that? You do it all the time while you are flying. Aeronuatics is an exact science, aviation is not.

Well, if they all phoned from their home or office, I suppose that would 'nab' them. But how many pay phones are available at corners where your phone from your car, pay phones in airports, bus stations, and now the ubiquitous cheap, prepaid cell phone where no one knows who bought it with the minutes already loaded into it.

You don't need 100,000 people making the calls. How about 100 people making 1000 calls in a week? What if they moved from pay phone to pay phone? From one outside a convenience store to one at a major league ball park. But, the cell phone is really the tough nut to crack. A person could just drive around in their car all day placing calls with bomb threats, and toss the phone in the river when the minutes run out.

 

[Monkeyfist]

There are many Arabs willing to blow themselves up for their cause, why would they be unwilling to make phone calls (poor cell coverage?)
They could save themselves some time by making several threats during the same phone call (save minutes also). If all threats are equal, then all named flights would be cancelled or diverted

 

[Dumbledore]

Yesssirrreeee, BOB!

The modern airline industry is in good hands alright!

I'm flying a bomb threatened airplane and I'm not landing as soon as I possibly can because Dispatch says, "We don't feel the threat is credible?!?" Yeah right. That's malfeasance of the highest order as a captain - you protect your passengers.

While all you guys are sitting here weighing and analyzing the legitimacy of the threa ... BOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!

(I hate it when that happens)

Allow me to pose my own little hypothetical. Don't worry, it's a lot simpler than Jarhead's massive coordinated phone plot.

You're flying along and you receive word from whoever follows your flights that your flight has been named in a bomb threat. The say it's okay though because the TSA and Homeland Security (and anyone else you'd like to add) says it's probably a hoax. Do you land or do you continue?

Please don't cloud the issue with stuff like, "it depends." All it depends on is you. It's you in the seat and you get to make the call because you're the PIC. How many of you would even consider remaining aloft any longer than it took to get on the ground and your folks off the plane?

Speak up guys - loud and clear because if that Lufthansa captain knew what was going on that's the decision he was faced with. He took a chance. Would you? REALLY?

 

[Dumbledore]

Oh, and please don't call me 'son', you know nothing about me or my background.

Francis, son, you need to lighten up.

And as a matter of record, if 2,200 hours or thereabouts is the correct measure of your flying experience (I know it says you have more from that little carrot thingy in front of the time), then I DO in fact, know something about you and your background.

Let's just say that if that's the number then you are actually quite youthful in this business.

 

[ThomasR]

OK I'd be Worried

I give alot of credit to modern U.S. technology. Cell phones operate through sub stations bouncing signals off satelites on a regulated wave band; these signals are monitored. Long distance calls are monitored, pay phones are traceable. Local calls can be triangulated by authorities defending against just such a scenario. There might be a temporary disruption at the beginning of an ATTACK but once a country is faced with the problem the solutions are readily available.

I might add that since this country is under an active state of war anyone caught contributing to such a scenario as to disrupt public transportation and threaten American lives would most likely be treated as an enemy agent and be shot; or at least that possibility would be considered and should it really happen would be justified.

 

[jarhead]

I might add that since this country is under an active state of war anyone caught contributing to such a scenario as to disrupt public transportation and threaten American lives would most likely be treated as an enemy agent and be shot; or at least that possibility would be considered and should it really happen would be justified.

Quite true that that could well be a consequence of being caught. The problem as I see it is, these people don't seem to mind to die a violent death for their cause. the 20 hi-jackers on 9-11 didn't, and neither did the British guy, Richard Reid with his failed attempt at blowing up an airliner with explosives in his shoe.

 

[ThomasR]

Yes, that is puzzling and also desperate on their part.

 

[Bluto]

Francis, son, you need to lighten up.

And as a matter of record, if 2,200 hours or thereabouts is the correct measure of your flying experience (I know it says you have more from that little carrot thingy in front of the time), then I DO in fact, know something about you and your background.

Let's just say that if that's the number then you are actually quite youthful in this business.

I really don't see what my experience has to do with anything. I agree that I am relatively new to this business. Although, if you only measure the quality of an argument by the number of hours in a person's logbook, well that definitely tells me something about you. Regardless, that doesn't give you the right to be condescending towards me, I don't care who you are, or what your background is. However, none of us knows what your background is because you continually refuse to post your special qualifications for judging the security decisions of Lufthansa and the German goverment. How much time is "ENUF" to justify your attacks on their decisions? Everyone who has posted on this thread with airline experience thinks you are wrong. If you are simply an every-day line pilot like most of us here, privy to the same information we are, either you are wrong, or all of us are. I wonder which one it could be...

The tone and content of your posts suggest that you don't understand very much about the airline industry. This is not to say that you are not, in fact, involved in the airline industry, since many who are appear as clueless as you. Most of them, however, have the good sense to recognize their lack of insight and keep their mouths shut. I've said it before, from reading your posts you appear to be a private pilot, or CFI with little or no airline experience. If you doubt me, look at the profiles of the people who agree with you.

 

[Aerosmith]

The short story is that Lufthansa got a bomb threat to the flight from Frankfurt to Tel Aviv from a person with an Arabic accent. They did some asking around and decided that the threat wasn't serious. The Israelis decided for the idiots at Luthansa that it was indeed serious and it forced the plane to land in Larnaca, Cyprus.

But hey, they're the Germans and they know better than any of the rest of us what they're doing, right?

Anyone still want to fly on Lufthansa? I sure won't - EVER!!!!!! This had BETTER result in a PR nightmare for them.

So I guess you wont fly United Airlines either. These "idiots" as you call them, got a bombthreat yesterday on 909 from Amsterdam to Chicago 1½ hours into the flight. And they just kept trucking on all the way to the Windy City with 117 pax!!!

But hey, they´re Americans and they know better than the rest of us, right?

Any chance of elaborating on this,.......son!

 

[Dumbledore]

None whatsoever!

Any chance of elaborating on this,.......son!

You forgot to provide any links or details other than your claim. I googled it and there's nothing about UAL 909.

While you're out scratching up some details for me to actually comment on why not try looking at the results for "bomb threat airliner" and take a gander at how many stories there are about planes that divert - immediately - when they receive a threat! Sure there are some that continue and I maintain that that would not be me driving.

Come up with some details and I'll think about responding.

 

[Bluto]

Driving what, exactly? If you continue to refuse to give your qualifications, at least give us an aircraft type so we can infer your international experience. Or do you think admitting "BE-200" or something similar might not lend credence to your argument?

 

[Aerosmith]

You forgot to provide any links or details other than your claim. .

Yup, just like yourself in your initial post.....son!

For crying out loud, read a paper. Dont be so helpless. Its all over the news in Euroland. You know, the nazis that are trying to take over the world as you put it

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041012/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_airline_threat_2

http://www.rtvnh.nl/zoek.asp
I can give you the news in Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Norweigian and German if you against all odds would be able to deciffer just a fragment of it.........son!

 

[Sunnfun]

Looks like dumbledore can add United to his no-fly-list then as well. And the F-16's that someone else said would escort the plane out of the US were out to lunch apparently.

The thing is, that there are lots of bomb threats every month all over the world. Some are serious, some aren't. Maybe we let the proper authorities (and that includes the pilots of an affected flight) determine whether a plane should turn around or continue. Pointing fingers to other countries and calling them stupid isn't really a very mature thing.

 

[Dumbledore]

Yup, just like yourself in your initial post.....son!!

Okay, okay. First, let's clear something up. Go put you glasses on and take a look at my initial post. There you will find a link to the BBC story that first caught my attention. So let's not get in a shouting match about whether I did or did not provide details because anyone who can read will see that I did.

Okay, POPS?!?

Second, I spoke to someone who would know and there's something fishy about the notion that United would have taken the approach reported in your news story. This is not in line with their policy on these matters, though their policy gets a bit murkier when the flight is an overwater flight. I'd bet the news report was wrong in some aspects.

Beside's United is already on my no-fly list - for other reasons - like I don't want to be stranded if they decxide to cease operations all of a sudden.

I'm sticking to my position(s). Ridicule them all you like. It makes them no less accurate.

 

[Dumbledore]

It doesn't really matter...

Driving what, exactly? If you continue to refuse to give your qualifications, at least give us an aircraft type so we can infer your international experience. Or do you think admitting "BE-200" or something similar might not lend credence to your argument?

I note with interest that there is little more discernable about your qualifications from your posts or your profile than there is from mine. I know you aren't flying a King Air 200 though or you'd know that's a BE-20 (I have a just a little King Air time, you see).

So, Blutarsky, Brutus, Bluto ... whatever your name is, what qualifies you to render your opinions with greater preference than I do mine? What is it about those 2200 hours that makes you such an expert on dealing with bomb threats at a 121 carrier?

At any rate, it suffices to say that I've got more time crossing oceans than you have total time. There is no way I will ever be able to prove that to you to your satisfaction in this forum, so why should I bother to try? Let's just say I can stay aloft beyond the point where FAR duty limits are reached and leave it at that.

Focus all you want on my qualifications. Being Hillary shrill about it won't make any of my experience go away - no matter how much you may wish it so.

Is this what a quagmire is like?

 

[Sunnfun]

Focus all you want on my qualifications.

Ok, I'll bite. I'll take your qualification of writing a biased and pompous post:

---
Anyone who had any doubt about the stupidity of the Americans - you know those folks trying to takeover the world yet again ... did I say that out loud? I meant to say, vying for the leadership of the americas and the rest of the "civilized" world, can now rest easier knowing that it's been confirmed.

Here's the Yahoo news report link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041012/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_airline_threat_2

The short story is that United Airlines got a bomb threat to the flight from Amsterdam to Chicago. They did some asking around and decided that the threat wasn't serious.

But hey, they're the Americans and they know better than any of the rest of us what they're doing, right?

Anyone still want to fly on United? I sure won't - EVER!!!!!! This had BETTER result in a PR nightmare for them.

---

Better this way?

PS: In case you haven't noticed, have a look at the first post in this thread.

 

[Dumbledore]

Gee, that was nice. You can plagiarize with the best of 'em.

Do you feel better now?

 

[350DRIVER]

Beside's United is already on my no-fly list - for other reasons - like I don't want to be stranded if they decxide to cease operations all of a sudden.

I have no dog in this fight but after reading the above no one should be left wondering if this person is any sort of airline pilot. The above pretty much says it all.

3 5 0

although a select few would say "furious George" won tonight's debate also so go figure.

 

[Sunnfun]

I have no dog in this fight but after reading the above no one should be left wondering if this person is any sort of airline pilot. The above pretty much says it all.

I'll second that. 'nuff said.

 

[Bart Simpson]

DUMBLEDORE you are such a Sierra Foxtrot, I can't even begin to comprehend from where you get that narrow minded thinking.
How dare you insult so many people in so few words and thinking that you must be all that.
Should I tell you a little secret about Deutschland: They're not planning to take over the EU but instead the US. Why don't you Google and find out how many Army, Navy and Air Force Bases the Germans have right under your nose here in the States.

It really shouldn't surprise me to still find 'subjects' that blame single (bad) actions from a few on whole groups of people just by undeliberate association. If I used your logic (Germans are stupid for having an airline that did a mistake), that means that all black people are crack using criminals and all white people are left wing extremists who want their slaves back.

Great job dude. Way to go on understanding, respecting and tolerating other countries and cultures. You are a true American. Wait, you can't be a true american because the true natives of this great country are kept captive in reservations (yes, captivity, you really need to google that subject). You're ancestors, and I'm just taking a wild guess here, are probably from the Old Country and if they're actually from Germany, well, then you just insulted yourself (as it happened with Donnie Rumsfeld).

BUT more power to you, I hope the world will be ruled by people like you, who take foreigners and just use stereo-types with no real knowledge. Oh darn, that's already happened but hopefully in a few days his reign of power will be ended and the colonization of the Middle East will finally be stopped.

Peace Out