LR45 vs LR60 vs XL or XLS

[cyork25]

Okay here is the deal. We just got the go ahead on getting a new bird. Our options are the LR45, LR60, the XL or the XLS. What do you guys think the best choice is and what are the pro's and con's of each. We currently operate a late serial #35 and would like to keep a similar operating cost. We mostly use 5000+ ft runways with the twice a year aspen trip thrown in there. thanks

p.s. we could consider other airplanes, we just don't want to stray much from the 6-9 mil range. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Downwind]

LR45- We are looking at selling our two. They seem to be great airplanes as long as they are still under warranty. After that the MX will kill ya.

LR60- Will climb like a stripped ape. Big (for a lear) cabin. Long runway requirements. Brakes suck. Supposed to be a 65 or 70 coming out with new legs and brakes.

XL/XLS- Don't know.

 

[FL350]

In terms of mission profile, the 45 will do most anything the 60 will do except fly as far on a tank of gas. The 60 is a million times more fun to fly.

 

[Rokit88]

The question is... How much stuff are your passengers going to bring?

The 60 is okay on baggage. I dont know about the 45. I would assume they have a little less in the way of cubic feet.

Citations are known for having butloads of baggage storage.

I have to agree with FL350. The 60 is an absolute rocketship.

rokit88

 

[j31flyer]

I currently fly XL and XLS and not the Lear. I know nothing of Lears except they are fast.

I do know the XL/XLS are great airplanes. They have a standup cabin, a ton of baggage space, great lav (serviced from the outside), SPR, FL410 in about 20 min, seats 7 comfortably, nice galley, great APU!, and can t/o and land in less than 5000ft even in APE. The airplane is fun to fly.

The only drawback compared to a Lear is the speed. The XL/XLS is Mmo'd to .74. But in a 1500 nm range, that may get you there 20 min later compared to a .80 plane. Big deal because the XL/XLS is comfprtable!

The XLS is about 11 mil and the XL is no longer in production, only used ones out there. Hope this helps.

J31Flyer

 

[FL350]

As far as baggage goes, we can put 8 sets of clubs and overnight bags in the 45 with little or no problem. You would be hard pressed to do that with the 60.

 

[Learsforsale]

Okay here is the deal. We just got the go ahead on getting a new bird. Our options are the LR45, LR60, the XL or the XLS. What do you guys think the best choice is and what are the pro's and con's of each. We currently operate a late serial #35 and would like to keep a similar operating cost. We mostly use 5000+ ft runways with the twice a year aspen trip thrown in there. thanks

p.s. we could consider other airplanes, we just don't want to stray much from the 6-9 mil range. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

For that price range the XLS is not an option. The cheapest used one that is for sale right now is just over $11M. I would also shy away from the Excel, right now it is an extremely over priced aircraft. They have been in pretty high demand lately, which means the owners (with the help of brokers) start jacking up the price because the market will bear it. If you buy an Excel right now, you will pay too much. The cheapest one that I have come across is $7.995M with 3000 hours, no APU and you have to go to Greece to see it.

Your best bet may be the Lear 60, depending on how far you need to go.

 

[miles otoole]

Downside to the XL is that its a 3 passeneger full fuel bird, whereas the 45XR is typically 7-8 pax, full fuel. 45 has a flat floor with more vertical side walls, whereas the XL has a dropped aisle, is more rounded, which means that most folks have to track their seats inboard avoiding hitting their head on the ceiling. The 45 has 8 windows (left side), the XL, 5 which will mean more light/windows for the pax. The 45s entry door is much bigger. With the higher wing loading, you notice a much less bumpy ride in the 45 due to the higher wing loading-can be pretty noticeable, especially with nervous flyers. If I were you, I'd fly both on a few longer trips, loaded down.
45 actually has more baggage than the 60 (65 vs. 55 cu ft.) XL is 83.

It all depends upon your mission requirements. The 60 is a great plane for 4 adults and a couple of kiddos, with not a ton of bags and a 2/3 continent range. The 45XR, more bags, 8 pax, and 1600 NM range. The XL with lotso bags, but slower than the LRs, and takes a big hit in range when more than 3-4 pax.
From the Lear guys, the 45 to XL mantra is that it carries less fuel and is lighter, but flies higher, further, and faster. A testament to its efficient, clean sheet wing design. There's absolutely nothing on the wing. If you look at an XL wing, there's all sorts of "stuff" on it. Of course, it's a product of the 70s.
Good luck.

 

[Blackjet]

From the Lear guys, the 45 to XL mantra is that it carries less fuel and is lighter, but flies higher, further, and faster. A testament to its efficient, clean sheet wing design. There's absolutely nothing on the wing. If you look at an XL wing, there's all sorts of "stuff" on it. Of course, it's a product of the 70s.
Good luck.

Was present when a LR45 was delivered to a 2 LJ45 operator. The Cp at the time asked why there was an Ice detect panel on the LH wing, but no ice light to shine on it like the RH wing has. Salesman was honest (already had the $) and told them it served no purpose. The RH side had one, so we wanted to hurry it through certification, so we just put one on the left. Pay it no attention.
That was a S/N under 100, so I don't know if they corrected that or not by now, but just thought of that when you mentioned the 45 wing was clean.