Lowered ake Off Mins.?

[Deftone45075]

Lowered Take Off Mins.?

Part C079 in our ops pecs. has always approved take offs as low as 600, 600, 600 RVR under the right conditions. We recently got a revision that now says 5,5, and 5.

Can we legally depart with those mins if there is no training record that actually says we were trained at the new minimums?

I, as well as all our pilots, recently completed our reccurent training, 293 a,b. However, on the 8410, there is only a reference to "Instrument take offs". The recurrent ride was done in the airplane and the instrument take off was simulated, but no reference to at what RVR.

Do I need to go to the sim and actually perform a 500 RVR takeoff?

Just got the revision and I'll have to go to our DO when i'm working next but just wanted to get some ideas from you guys.

 

[Singlecoil]

I think that change was to bring those more in line with ICAO standards. Most airports you will still be limited to 6,6,6 because their SMGSS charts are 600-1200 RVR. You can only go 5,5,5 at an airport that has a SMGSS chart that says "less than 1200 RVR".

Cat III mins were dropped from 700 RVR to 600 RVR without any additional training or certification required. That was supposedly a change for ICAO consistency as well.

I would say as long as the airport has a SMGSS chart that goes to 500 RVR or below, then you are good to go.

 

[bigsky]

Ours has been 5,5,5 for some time - again I believe it is to bring our minimums in line with icao- most of theirs is 150 meters which is 500 feet.
In my opinion if the FAA didnt have specific instructions to be trained I wouldnt worry about it! But thats is only my opinion

 

[Deftone45075]

But thats is only my opinion

And if you ask the FSDO, it's only their opinion. Underdog was right, you get a lot of different answers.

Our POI (we asked yesterday) says, "...well, you have to be trained each year in reduced visibility takeoffs, but you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from 600 to 500." Is that a yes, no, I don't know?

The FSDO, who's word I would not generally operate under says you need training to the 500.

In the year and a half I've been here, I havn't had to do a takeoff under 6,6,6. So It's not something I'm worried about. But I do think it is a good question, so back to the POI today, hopefully for a clear answer.

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[The FNG]

I call BS on the SMGCS reference. SMGCS Charts have nothing to do with TO mins. TO mins are found on the back of either the 10-9 or 11-1 charts under the section labeled Take Off. And then the minimums may even be company specific. The SM in SMGCS stands for Surface Movement. NOTHING to do with take offs (or landings or approaches or departures...) In fact, there can be a SMGCS Chart for "less than RVR 600" with TO minimums "of" 600 RVR. Apples and oranges...

 

[pilotyip]

Op Specs govern

Your Op Spec have to reflect the change from 600 to 500, if your Op Spec still list 6,6,6 then the lowest you can go is 6,6,6, It is my understanding the Feds may be issuing new Op Spec that allow 5,5,5 in the future

 

[Deftone45075]

Your Op Spec have to reflect the change from 600 to 500, if your Op Spec still list 6,6,6 then the lowest you can go is 6,6,6, It is my understanding the Feds may be issuing new Op Spec that allow 5,5,5 in the future

They do reflect the change. They were recently revised to read 500,500,500. The change in the ops specs is what prompted my question about having been trained to those numbers.

 

[Singlecoil]

In fact, there can be a SMGCS Chart for "less than RVR 600" with TO minimums "of" 600 RVR. Apples and oranges...

Name one.

 

[The FNG]

KATL 10-9A and 10-9D. Next...