Low Time B727 pilots

[Jackflys2]

After the internship? most continue to fly.

One "intern" is now Captain.

Thats real experience that can't be taken away!

I am not trying to debate the merits of internships or make anyone upset, just trying to hear from people who have experience with this and other programs.

www.simcenter-carolina.com seems to be the best I have found.

 

[LJDRVR]

Hey Jacksfly,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're really interested in an answer, and not just trolling for flame-bait. So, with no profanity, hyperbole, and only a little bit of sarcasm, I'll attempt to give you an honest, non-emotional answer.

Not worth anything. I know stuff like this sounds tempting. We've all been sitting there with wet ink on our commercial tickets, wondering how on earth we're ever going to get any flight time built up. To an outsider, Boeing time certainly seems much more valuable than light twin time. You have to ask yourself though, where do you want to go with your career? If you give those hooligans your hard-earned cash, you're going to have 660 hours. What jobs will you be competing for with 660 hours? Regional Airline pilot? No. Major Airline pilot? No. Freight Dog in a light twin? No. Indentured, institutional FO for a scumbag freight 727 operator with no hope for ever upgrading, making any money, having a life, or ever being competitive for what few "good" jobs there are out there? Quite possibly.

400 hours in the right seat of a transport category jet, will do very little to develop the skills of a 263 hour pilot. After 400 hours, you'll barely be keeping pace with the rest of the crew. (Going through the motions, NOT situationally aware.) You'll be able to wrestle the AC around on a nice VFR day, mostly using the autopilot as a crutch.

There a very few shortcuts, and this is not one of them. What you should do is build your time and work your way into the right seat of an RJ. Or build your time and weasel your way into a charter outfit as an FO flying Lears or Westwinds, or whatever. When I say build your time, I'm talking about the good old-fashioned way of working hard and getting paid to be the PIC. (Instruction, pipeline, traffic watch.)

I sat in the left seat of 5 different models of Learjets for four and half years. I had the pleasure of taking a lot of great folks for their first flight in a jet after training. Given the choice between a 1500 hour freight dog, who's been slogging it out in the crap with no radar, by themselves, making all the descisions, and some PFT person who has 3000 hours of being a bird strike protection for the Flight Engineer, I'm picking the first one. And I'm not alone.

Please don't make the wrong choice. Drop me a PM, I've got lots of other ways you can get started in this industry without screwing up your professional development.

Look at it this way, are you really going to give your money to a bunch of loosers who have the website of some 11 year-old stamp collecter? (Not even that nice!)

Try it this way dude, post what these losers have told you here, and I can guarantee we'll expose them for the scumbags they are.

DO YOUR RESEARCH! WE CAN HELP!

 

[LJDRVR]

I almost forgot, You put a resume in front of any Chief Pilot in the industry that says 660 total, 400 727 SIC, You are going to set of every warning bell there is. They will show it to their friends for a laugh, but the only folks that are going to be interested are probably people you DO NOT want to work for.

Anybody else want to help this guy out with the truth?

 

[350DRIVER]

The guy is obviously recruiting for C.A.T., if you don't reply maybe he'll quit posting his pay for training crap.

BINGO, we got a winner

What is even more comical is the amount of replies this guy has generated. He is obviously flaming ya'll to hell and back.

3 5 0

ps> comparing a Seneca to a B727? You surely have got to be **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing kidding me. I don't even think that deserves a response.

 

[Jackflys2]

Look at it this way, are you really going to give your money to a bunch of loosers who have the website of some 11 year-old stamp collecter? (Not even that nice!)

Try it this way dude, post what these losers have told you here, and I can guarantee we'll expose them for the scumbags they are.

My friends like working there now as much or more than when they were interns.

I like the fact that this program is not full of slick sales brochures and sales pep talks. They emphasis that the program is difficult and in no way a gimme. There is no selling just an explanation and references from past interns and present full time pilots.

I am leaning towards doing this and LJDRVR's arguments are swaying me little.

 

[BoilerUP]

Moderators:

PLEASE KILL THIS THREAD!

This is enough fun for me, boys and girls. Consider me unsubscribed to this (now) obvious sales pitch.

 

[flyer172r]

Ok, please tell me there's more to this program than what their website says. I took a look at it, and there's no way I would even look at a program that had such little information on their website. What are they hiding?

 

[Jackflys2]

My buddies who are flying there gave me the number. I don't have it with me now. You can email them for more info.

This is enough fun for me, boys and girls. Consider me unsubscribed to this (now) obvious sales pitch.

I am not trying to sell this thing!

I posted to shoot holes in this program.

All I have gotten is the usual dribble about pay for training being the worst thing that ever happened to aviation.

Anyone know anyone who is not satisfied with their experience there?

 

[Tackleberry]

I almost forgot, You put a resume in front of any Chief Pilot in the industry that says 660 total, 400 727 SIC, You are going to set of every warning bell there is. They will show it to their friends for a laugh, but the only folks that are going to be interested are probably people you DO NOT want to work for.

Leardriver said so nicely. Any CP out there that sees that you (anybody) sold yourself to the devil will certainly not hire you, but tell all his buddies about you. No, not in a good way.

No one can make up your mind but you. It's hopefully your money to spend, and it's you that will have to live up to the way you spent it.

 

[de727ups]

Yo Jack

"All I have gotten is the usual dribble about pay for training being the worst thing that ever happened to aviation."

Sorry you don't like the dribble, but that's what you are going to hear most of the time from professional pilots in reguard to PFT schemes. I sent your link to jetcareers.com...so they are now warned and informed. Thank you so much. And if I ever run into someone who has done this program, after they get an earful from me, I'll be sure to post their response on how they feel the program is helping their career.

 

[leardrivr]

Well said LJDRVR. I hope this guy takes your advice. nice picture by the way.

 

[FoxHunter]

Seems like this issue draws up a good deal of emotion. Just a few things to think about. All the major airlines in the mid 60s hired guys with little more than 200 hours, some like UAL hired Zero time, or TWA required a Private. I know of one guy hired by TWA in Feb. 64, age 20, 500 hrs ASEL, as a relief pilot on the 707. When he was 24 he was a 727 Captain, 25 a 707 Captain. Lots of very young, very low time guys flying an all seats those days. Federal Express, back in Falcon days, required you to buy your Falcon rating from their school, and then you could be considered for a job. Braniff in the early, mid 70s required you to pay for your 727 FE rating at their school, and then they would consider you for a job.

Now paying almost $30,000 for 727 would not be my first choice but it would be nice to have a couple thousand hours as a 727 F/O after a few years. It sure is going to look a lot better than a batch of Senaca time.

 

[aeronautic1]

The three things a B727/FO needs to know:

" Was that call for us?"

"Nice landing captain"

"I'll have the chicken"

 

[Swede]

The guys who mentioned the appearance of a resume with "600 TT, 400 B727" have nailed it. Chief Pilots aren't stupid. They're going to KNOW that you are as raw as a freshly-butchered pork chop. There is NO substitute for a lot of hours over varied terrain and with dog-poo weather thrown into the mix, as PIC. I think there are smart chimps who could act as SIC.

Don't freak, I am SIC now myself but I paid my dues as PIC in some evil environments, and those that have done both know that what makes a competent pilot isn't oodles of time, it's acting as PIC making the tough decisions. By definition, the SIC doesn't decide, he offers input. Only when faced with deteriorating circumstances is a pilot's true mettle made known.

One last thought... a good FO, who can provide wise input, and who could easily fly the plane solo when/if skipper has a coronary, is an asset to the crew. Without PIC experience, an FO is often more of a hinderance. I remember at AA for a time, we were putting new-hires directly into the right seat of B757 trips to Tegucigalpa, Lima, some other nasty places, and the concensus of a lot of the Captains was "it would have been an easier and safer trip as a solo." This is not a condemnation, simply reality... these guys were out of their depth. A few hundred hours in a dinosaur jet as "grasshopper" tuning the VHF for the "Master" won't do squat for your resume or your skills.

 

[leardrivr]

I couldn't agree more. I just landed my first job in a heavy. I fell I am prepard for the job because I have several years of tough P.I.C. time flying light jets. I have had the pleasent experience of flying in mexico, at night, bad weather, with a green pilot. Believe me there were times I would have rather been alone. However I have too remember I was that green once too. I was not born a pilot. I would not want to be that S.I.C flying a trip with a boeing captain. someone who has the knowledge and experience to help me prepare for upgrade. Then relize he wishes someone else was flying with him.

 

[usmc33]

Craaap

I checked out the website. I'd throw my logbook away and start from scratch flying students and living in my car before I gave these guys my money. PFT is crap and ruining the future for some pilots who EARNED the right and more than that are EXPERIENCED.

 

[flyer172r]

Seems like this issue draws up a good deal of emotion. Just a few things to think about. All the major airlines in the mid 60s hired guys with little more than 200 hours, some like UAL hired Zero time, or TWA required a Private. I know of one guy hired by TWA in Feb. 64, age 20, 500 hrs ASEL, as a relief pilot on the 707. When he was 24 he was a 727 Captain, 25 a 707 Captain. Lots of very young, very low time guys flying an all seats those days. Federal Express, back in Falcon days, required you to buy your Falcon rating from their school, and then you could be considered for a job. Braniff in the early, mid 70s required you to pay for your 727 FE rating at their school, and then they would consider you for a job.

Thankfully the airline accident rate has improved significantly since those times. Technological advances aside, I wonder why