Low pilot pay called 'dirty little secret'

[AA717driver]

RJ's are high CASM aircraft. The only way to make them work (in order to serve those oh-so-valuable small markets) is to pay the employees slave wages.

Either re-expand the EAS program or people in BFE are going to have to drive to Lubbock to catch a big airplane.

I was screaming and jumping up and down because the unions didn't capitalize on Sully's comments before Congress. NOW, there's an even wider opening.

Anyone?

TC

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

RJ's are high CASM aircraft. The only way to make them work (in order to serve those oh-so-valuable small markets) is to pay the employees slave wages.

Either re-expand the EAS program or people in BFE are going to have to drive to Lubbock to catch a big airplane.

I was screaming and jumping up and down because the unions didn't capitalize on Sully's comments before Congress. NOW, there's an even wider opening.

Anyone?

TC

Why do you and others wait and hope for Sully's, the Colgan accident and unions to enhance our careers?

 

[jonjuan]

Maybe to help put it into perspective with the politicians, the theme of "The Flight Attendant in the back made MORE than the co-pilot up front on the Colgan flight" would help.
Senator Smith: "So please help me understand this Mr. Kelner, you pay many of your First Officers less than your Flight Attendants?
LK: "Yethhh, that's correct." "Well, don't look at me.....their union negothiated their pay and work rulthh. The Board negotiated mine."

 

[brownie]

Wasn't it Colgan that didn't allow crewmembers to pick up food stamps in uniform? Some regional had it written in their GOM ...

That was american eagle and they actually tried to fire couple of FO's when they were seen standing in line to recieve food stamps.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Penguin46]

"pay" to pay attention

Pay does have an effect on attitude and ultimately some aspect of performance. If you cut Joe managers pay to bone; he probably wouldn't care as much either. Low payed F/O may be the most distracted of all; for understandable reasons.

 

[Smarta$$]

If people have been accepting those jobs for 15 years, why would anybody offer more money? Obviously the price for the labor is set at an appropriate level to attract the level of talent the company desires.

If $21,000 per year is too little, DO NOT TAKE THE JOB. That is how the wages increase.

Not true D-bag. Two summers ago, Pinnacle was cancelling flights in huge numbers, paying millions of dollars in performance fines to NW because they could not get enough pilots to staff the company. It was a time when pilots were in demand and our contract was 3 years expired. Pilots were choosing to go to better paying airlines.

It was the PERFECT STORM for a supply and demand pay increase for Pinnacle pilots. The money paid in fines alone was enough to close the gap at the negotiating table for our new contract. In the end, the company paid the fines, lost the revenue for the CX block hours and refused to raise the pay hugh enough to attract the needed pilots.

Do you actually have anything intelligent to say?

 

[Smarta$$]

Wasn't it Colgan that didn't allow crewmembers to pick up food stamps in uniform? Some regional had it written in their GOM ...

I have had several of my FO's tell me that instructors and management had come into their initial ground school at Pinnacle and told them not to wear their uniform to the food stamp or wellfare office. This has come from several people with various seniority. Pretty disgusting.

 

[jonjuan]

Pay does have an effect on attitude and ultimately some aspect of performance. If you cut Joe managers pay to bone; he probably wouldn't care as much either. Low payed F/O may be the most distracted of all; for understandable reasons.

Exactly-such as debating whether or not to take the first available upgrade despite reservations about lack of icing experience versus staying in the right seat another year to gain said experience. It sounded like the Colgan FO would stay in the right seat. How many others share the same fear, but simply take the upgrade simply for economic reasons (not to mention being told over and over that delaying upgrade just one class may mean the difference in hundreds of seniority numbers at Alaska, Delta, WN, et al)?

 

[Smarta$$]

RJ's are high CASM aircraft. The only way to make them work (in order to serve those oh-so-valuable small markets) is to pay the employees slave wages.

Either re-expand the EAS program or people in BFE are going to have to drive to Lubbock to catch a big airplane.

I was screaming and jumping up and down because the unions didn't capitalize on Sully's comments before Congress. NOW, there's an even wider opening.

Anyone?

TC

If you figure a conservative load of 30 pax on my 50 seat jet with a 1 hour average flight, you could charge 6 dollars per pax and double the rate of pay for both pilots. 30x6=180 Thats 90 dollars per leg (round trip ticket).

The sad thing is, the six dollars would never make it to us anyway.

 

[justgrieveit]

I think the only fix is for a mandate that will do away with outsourcing and force the airlines to hire pilots to fly the aircraft that they own or lease, including the turboprops and RJ's. This will spell the end of the regional carriers and force the airlines into the ab initio flight training business. Of course this will increase the cost of doing business across the board but if the rules are the same for every airline than the ticket prices can be raised to cover the cost of training. The airlines could then tailor a training program that will weed out the weaker candidates, a la a military flight training program. Not that this will ever happen but in a perfect world...

 

[jonjuan]

If you figure a conservative load of 30 pax on my 50 seat jet with a 1 hour average flight, you could charge 6 dollars per pax and double the rate of pay for both pilots. 30x6=180 Thats 90 dollars per leg (round trip ticket).

So, that just made it into the management bonus plan for next year.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A classic:

What is the difference between a large pizza and a FO?



A large pizza can feed a family of four.....

 

[dojetdriver]

anc ?

In Alaska, the 737 IS an RJ.

 

[instructordude]

Pay is at the extreme on both ends. You have the regional pay on the low extreme and the major pay at the high extreme. If we averaged out our pay then it would be fair for all.

 

[starchkr]

anc ?

Almost...Penn Air...

 

[starchkr]

Pay is at the extreme on both ends. You have the regional pay on the low extreme and the major pay at the high extreme. If we averaged out our pay then it would be fair for all.

Am i really going to respond to this......nahhhh...too easy.

 

[Lear70]

Pay is at the extreme on both ends. You have the regional pay on the low extreme and the major pay at the high extreme. If we averaged out our pay then it would be fair for all.

Nice try at flame bait...

 

[jonjuan]

A classic:

What is the difference between a large pizza and a FO?



A large pizza can feed a family of four.....

I thought it was that the FO had to deliver pizza's.

 

[BigMotorToter]

I think the only fix is for a mandate that will do away with outsourcing and force the airlines to hire pilots to fly the aircraft that they own or lease, including the turboprops and RJ's. This will spell the end of the regional carriers and force the airlines into the ab initio flight training business. Of course this will increase the cost of doing business across the board but if the rules are the same for every airline than the ticket prices can be raised to cover the cost of training. The airlines could then tailor a training program that will weed out the weaker candidates, a la a military flight training program. Not that this will ever happen but in a perfect world...

That is an excellent idea!

In addition ALPA needs to stop representing a lot of these scumbag carriers.

Here's what I posted on another thread in regards to what ALPA can do to start helping turning our profession around:



ALPA stops representing commuter airlines that don't meet certain safety criteria. Not just FAA mins, but an increased amount defined by ALPA.

This would be a very pubilc move in light of the current events.

The list of non represented airlines would be made very public. People may stop flying said "less than safe" airlines.

Hopefully many of these airlines would then go out of business and the older, more established airlines (like it used to be) would have to grow again to pick up the slack. And along with this growth, so would the better paying pilot jobs.

We would have then gotten rid of less than safe airlines.

Created a way to grow the Major airlines again.

Create more better paying pilot jobs for higher experienced pilots, many of which may have been at these $hitty Co. which helps offset the pain of a lot of job losses at these airlines.

In the long run, the health of our profession will be on it's way to being restored, as well as providing a safer transportation system.

If we can create more, higher paying jobs, then ALPA will more than make up for the due's they will loose by dumping scumbag operators.
__________________

 

[FBN0223]

The dirty little secret is "outsourcing" to the lowest bidder.