Love flying or hate it?

[Attitude Ind.]

So honestly, how many of you are happy with your career choice of aviation. Why or why not?

Would you change your choice if you could? Why or why not?

Just feeling it out here.

 

[dumbidea]

just take percocets when your not flying, the career is fine.

 

[unreal]

I've waited tables for the past year chasing this whole ATC thing. I can tell you what a crappy job is like. Now that I'm getting back into flying, I can appreciate it a whole lot more.

 

[pilotyip]

I left professional flying for five years in the 80's then came back because I liked being around airplanes and pilots more than water coolers and desks. I believe you will find a lot more happy pilots if they have done something else in their lives to compare with the pilot's job.

 

[Gorilla]

The flying part is fine. It's the mickey mouse stuff that comes with it.

9/11, TSA
Contracts
Sick outs
Union Politics
Drunk passengers
FAA/FARs
Recurrent training
AME's
Jet lag

You get the idea.

 

[Fugawe]

I left professional flying for five years in the 80's then came back because I liked being around airplanes and pilots more than water coolers and desks. I believe you will find a lot more happy pilots if they have done something else in their lives to compare with the pilot's job.

We beat this subject up on another thread I think, but it's always pertinent -- espec to those looking to enter the field.

I think you are correct in that, when compared to other choices, flying is by far the best 'office' you could have......espec if you have a love for flying.

As discussed before though, when the glamour of the office wears off, it can become much less attractive. From the outside looking in, we all generally view the grass as greener.

Major airline problems include -- Disappearing pensions, lack of schedule control, huge pay cuts with more promised, cabotage looming, mgmt involvement in private lives (AA rule 32 has gotten at least one pilot fired recently), poor security, erosion of worker's rights, disappearing medical insurance coverage, etc, etc.

The tendency of the outside viewer to think the pay makes all these problems worth it, may not know the whole picture. Most major's pilots (except cargos) are making pre-1997 wages.....and many making less. So, the money is not like the rumors of old. Most pilots I know are doing additional work of some kind to supplement income and retirement planning.

Most of these problems affect all flying (regionals, corporate, etc). I do know there are some great flying jobs out there that aren't as affected, but they are few and far between.

For a shiny, new pilot, none of these issues seems that important.

Unfortunately, after 10-20 years or so in the business, you have to think about retirement (hopefully you plan before that), income, med ins, time off, etc. If you find that the plan you thought you signed up for isn't playing out, you tend to be less happy.

The complaining you hear nowadays, largely comes from those who've commited their careers to being professional pilots but find that the govt, and corporate America have changed the 'rules'. Ask the Delta and United pilots what they think of recent events. The courts and corporate BODs are brutal toward workers (pilots are just workers in this game).

If you understand the game and commit to it you may do fine. You'll have to fly because you love it, and be ready to plan for your own retirement, ins, and other normal job bennies on your own. Gets complicated when you throw spouse, kids, schools, mortgage, toys, vacations, illness, etc into the mix.

There's nothing more satisfying than launching off into the sunrise in a shiny jet. But, when your 'jet' is dragging an 800,000 pound anchor of job 'crap', the shine can wear off quickly.

Find a way to keep your jet 'shiny', and you'll be a happy camper. Dont' think the Tony Robbins or Oprah 'positive mental attitude' happy-crap will carry you either. The reality of paying bills blows that away quickly.

I think that if you can find financial independence from the airline, you have the best world. Tough to do, but not impossible.......takes planning.

Flying can be a GREAT job......just understand the 'job' part and plan ahead.


Fugawe

 

[BizPilot]

It's Simple

We beat this subject up on another thread I think, but it's always pertinent -- espec to those looking to enter the field.

I think you are correct in that, when compared to other choices, flying is by far the best 'office' you could have......espec if you have a love for flying.

As discussed before though, when the glamour of the office wears off, it can become much less attractive. From the outside looking in, we all generally view the grass as greener.

Major airline problems include -- Disappearing pensions, lack of schedule control, huge pay cuts with more promised, cabotage looming, mgmt involvement in private lives (AA rule 32 has gotten at least one pilot fired recently), poor security, erosion of worker's rights, disappearing medical insurance coverage, etc, etc.

The tendency of the outside viewer to think the pay makes all these problems worth it, may not know the whole picture. Most major's pilots (except cargos) are making pre-1997 wages.....and many making less. So, the money is not like the rumors of old. Most pilots I know are doing additional work of some kind to supplement income and retirement planning.

Most of these problems affect all flying (regionals, corporate, etc). I do know there are some great flying jobs out there that aren't as affected, but they are few and far between.

For a shiny, new pilot, none of these issues seems that important.

Unfortunately, after 10-20 years or so in the business, you have to think about retirement (hopefully you plan before that), income, med ins, time off, etc. If you find that the plan you thought you signed up for isn't playing out, you tend to be less happy.

The complaining you hear nowadays, largely comes from those who've commited their careers to being professional pilots but find that the govt, and corporate America have changed the 'rules'. Ask the Delta and United pilots what they think of recent events. The courts and corporate BODs are brutal toward workers (pilots are just workers in this game).

If you understand the game and commit to it you may do fine. You'll have to fly because you love it, and be ready to plan for your own retirement, ins, and other normal job bennies on your own. Gets complicated when you throw spouse, kids, schools, mortgage, toys, vacations, illness, etc into the mix.

There's nothing more satisfying than launching off into the sunrise in a shiny jet. But, when your 'jet' is dragging an 800,000 pound anchor of job 'crap', the shine can wear off quickly.

Find a way to keep your jet 'shiny', and you'll be a happy camper. Dont' think the Tony Robbins or Oprah 'positive mental attitude' happy-crap will carry you either. The reality of paying bills blows that away quickly.

I think that if you can find financial independence from the airline, you have the best world. Tough to do, but not impossible.......takes planning.

Flying can be a GREAT job......just understand the 'job' part and plan ahead.


Fugawe

My thoughts:

The Love:
I LOVE my flying. I have a nice paying, predictable corporate job. I get to go pull the Cheyenne IV out of the hangar each morning around 7am, prep it, do as much pre-flight planning as I desire in my own hangar office fully equipped with the latest computer technology. My passengers show-up leisurely, climb aboard, and we blast off to our destination. I engage the Collins autopilot and slide my chair back and enjoy a hot cup of Starbucks coffee at FL240. My company arranges a rental car at our destination. I go off to do what I want in a different city each day until my cell phone rings. We meet back at the airport around 3pm or 4pm, and I am home around 5 or 6pm. All this for $65K a year.

The Hate:
But I HATE the regional airlines and what they have done to the industry.
The regional airlines are the ulitmate disgrace and embarrassment to the professional pilot. It continues to boggle my mind how many 'put-up', or 'sacrifice' to go to the regionals to build time, or use the 'stepping-stone' excuse. At what cost: Your marriage? Your family? Starvation? How can one be 'honorable' in a regional pilot position when it pays less than a starting wage at McDonalds? That is a choice to work for the regionals, but I have my right to knock-it too....and I will continue to knock-it until the day comes when aviation jobs actually exceed the pilot-pool population. Many of us were mis-lead in the 90's by Air, Inc. and others: "Prepare for the up-and-coming Pilot Shortage". Never happened, most likely never will. The ploy was a join-agreement/cover-up by aviation universities around the country to attract students (ERAU, UND, Spartan, etc.).

Supporting evidence: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=81745

Continue to expect $15,000 a year REGIONAL jobs with very low QOL (Quality Of Life), all-while rich daddies brag about little Johnny getting a regional job, and the denial part of rich daddy continues to send rent, food, car payment, and student loan money.

That is my HATE and my LOVE of aviation gentelmen.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"The complaining you hear nowadays, largely comes from those who've commited their careers to being professional pilots but find that the govt, and corporate America have changed the 'rules'."

This sums it up perfectly. Pilot salaries have not kept up with inflation. There is no longer a pot-of-gold at the end of the rainbow. Flying will always be "fun", but "fun" doesn't put bread on the table.

When you start taking away all of the perks that made this career appealing: compensation, schedule, retirement... Then what is left?

The previous poster was correct. The regionals were meant to be a stepping-stone. Their pay and work-rules were never designed to support a career and a family.

You young guys fall all over yourselves to reach your goals of flying for JetBlue or AirTran when just a decade ago we would feel sorry for pilots at airlines like those.

The rules have changed. We still love the flying. The job, however, sucks.

 

[FN FAL]

Love or Hate? Can't you just like something to be happy? Do you have to be infatuated with it in order to consider it a good choice?

I like my current job, it has its ups and downs so to speak, but I am definitely satisfied with it. I would have never thought that this is what I was going to wind up doing for a living when I went to 141 school, but it does fit my goals when I left the factory. Which was, no more manual labor, swing shifts, working nights, getting dirty on the job and working with monkeys. We'll 3 out of 4 ain't to shabby. Unless something drastically changes with how things are done at work, I'm not leaving anytime soon.

By the way, my ratings were 19,500.00 pvt-mei and that included an air-conditioned apartment with swimming pool for six months and 3 months housing in one of the school's houses with 4 roommates, no extra charge (plane scheduling delays).

 

[Turkey Shoot]

I left professional flying for five years in the 80's then came back because I liked being around airplanes and pilots more than water coolers and desks. I believe you will find a lot more happy pilots if they have done something else in their lives to compare with the pilot's job.

AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!

I spent eight years sleeping on the ground, wearing fatigues and basically living the "not so good life." I've dug ditches (literally), sold cars, recruited, and tossed sod. I simply can not bring myself to hate my job regardless of how much crap they throw at me. I could be being shot at right now in Iraq or Afghanistan but instead I sleep in a motel with a bed when I'm on a trip and get to see my kids frequently.

Unfortunatly, the most militant and angry pilots seem to be the guys that came right out of school and went to flying a jet. They have no other idea how crappy it can be or what it's like to not have Mom and Dad to help with basic survival.

The pay ain't the best and scheduling can suck to deal with but flying airplanes beats working for a living any day.

 

[UA-RESURRECTED]

I have to agree with FN FAL and Turkey Shoot. People who bitch and complain about aviation might think a bit differently if they had ever found themselves dependent on a ********************ty job. And I'm not talking about just some boring office job either. My current job is auto repair, and FN FAL pointed everything out perfectly. Manual labor, getting dirty on the job, working with monkeys, etc... These are the conditions I hope to someday escape. For now, I do it simply because I have to. I don't have my parents paying my way. I work for a living because that's the way it is.

Maybe someday I'll get an aviation job. Maybe I wont. If I ever do though, one thing I can tell you is that I'll be grateful for it, despite any issues you may hear people complaining about.

 

[pilothouston123]

I love flying, I hate Jerks.

 

[152SIC]

Having several thousand hours in jets (primarialy Citation X) at this point, I wish I would have chosen a different path.

I know jobs outside flying as well; having been in the Army as a M1 tank driver/loader for 4 years, worked in warehouses and delivered pizzas too. I held all those various jobs so I could pay for both flight school and college.

At this point I have a college degree (in aeronautical science,) and plenty of flying experience. However, if I could do it over again I would have applied my time and effort into becoming a CPA, attorney, real estate broker or a professional government worker (an oxymoron for sure.)

There is not a promising future in aviation unless you'd enjoy working for a company like Mesa Airlines.

 

[Papps]

AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!

I spent eight years sleeping on the ground, wearing fatigues and basically living the "not so good life." I've dug ditches (literally), sold cars, recruited, and tossed sod. I simply can not bring myself to hate my job regardless of how much crap they throw at me. I could be being shot at right now in Iraq or Afghanistan but instead I sleep in a motel with a bed when I'm on a trip and get to see my kids frequently.

Unfortunatly, the most militant and angry pilots seem to be the guys that came right out of school and went to flying a jet. They have no other idea how crappy it can be or what it's like to not have Mom and Dad to help with basic survival.

The pay ain't the best and scheduling can suck to deal with but flying airplanes beats working for a living any day.

Thats the problem. The people that stand up for the piss poor life of aviation are guys that are comparing it to something that sucked pretty bad in its own right. Thats like having two girls, one weighing 280 pounds and one 230 pounds. By comparison your nailing a princess if you nab the 230 pounder, but in reality your still taging a fat chick.

 

[mazawakhan]

The worst day of flying beats the best day in an office! I just got a job flying in Alaska with a great company. Yeah the 3am callouts are going to be rough but I can tell you I would rather do this than sit in a cubicle for 40 hrs a week. Saying that I would never work for a commuter or regional. I would have to say for me that that type of job would be the pits. I love flying but I dont love it enough to work for 18K a year. If I did I would be certain that I would be hating my job.

 

[positiveg]

Honestly, I don't think anyone who is member of an aviation forum hates flying so what's the point of asking?

Just saying, not trying to be a d*ck.

 

[pilotyip]

About the working for 18K per year, you only have to work for that until you have the time for your next move. We have GL, Mesaba, etc F/O's who more than double their pay the first day in the DA-20 doing on-demand business. We had one guy, 6 yrs at Mesaba in the Avro as a F/O, got a pay rasie his first day in the DA-20, and will probably be flying the DC-9 with another raise by the end of his first year.

 

[Ralgha]

How can one be 'honorable' in a regional pilot position when it pays less than a starting wage at McDonalds?

With only a couple exceptions (Gulfstream, Great Lakes), you will make more as a first year regional FO making minimum monthly guarentee than working 40 hours a week at McDonalds on starting wages.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Fantastic YIP. There are 29,446 aviators on Flightinfo.com

When are all of our interviews scheduled?

 

[Gobi Gred]

Sorry for a slight thread hi-jack but I have to respond to BizPilot. I know the regional airlines aren't exactly the best job in aviation but far from the worst. I've lost count of how many flight departments I've seen profiled in Professional Pilot that obviously treat their pilots like slaves. No set days off, tied to a beeper 24/7. Gimme a break. It's not just the regionals that degrade the profession. Other sectors of aviation do their part as well.